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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 7:31:31 GMT -6
If those investigations turn out to be true, then the people who who broke the laws should be punished. Claims by pro-lifers can hardly be considered evidence though, so we'll have to wait until police and prosecutors press those cases forward. Will I ask for PP to be closed down if found guilty? No, just made more accountable and law bidding. Did i answer your questions or will more red herrings be submitted for my amusement. There were several questions you left unanswered, should I just assume you're planning on ignoring them once again?
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 8:15:29 GMT -6
I never ignore good, intelligent, and logical questions. Trolling, irrelevant and illogical questions are always placed to the wayside.
But when problems appear again and again in multiple sites, we now have a systemic problem and not an isolated person problem.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 11:14:45 GMT -6
I never ignore good, intelligent, and logical questions. Trolling, irrelevant and illogical questions are always placed to the wayside. But when problems appear again and again in multiple sites, we now have a systemic problem and not an isolated person problem. Let me get this right. So both Dot and I asked you to respond to the same questions the young girl asked the nurse, and you consider our request to be bad, unintelligent, and illogical? You even asked me if I wanted the Christian or non-jesus version, as if you were prepared to deliver, and now those questions are too silly for you to even respond? As far as systematic problems are concerned, my solution is to fix them, while yours is to shut down PP. That's not how it works in the corporate world where people and companies are fined when rules are broken, and some people are incarcerated when appropriate, but regardless, the whole industry is not shut down. If that were the case, we wouldn't have a church left standing in the US.
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 11:15:26 GMT -6
What advice would you give to a teenager asking those questions? Ok... I'm reviewing the beginning of the video (to start somewhere)... Planned Parenthood: "Some are tied to a bed, some tied to a tree.... ...Some people like to be spanked, or hit, or whipped... ...there are actually educational pornos" (speaking with a casual voice as if this is just a natural thing that a 15 year old should be OK in participating in) I wouldn't have approached the subject like this. Probably more along the lines of "Honey, there is a lot of things out in the world that are promoted as normal but really aren't and even morso as a beautiful 15 year old that you are. Being whipped is a good example of what isn't normal". Hey, Steve, what would you have told her.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 12:52:43 GMT -6
I would have told her to take three spankings and call me in the morning. After that urge subsided, I would have asked her if it was her curiosity motivating her to ask these questions or if her boyfriend was pushing her to do these things. Depending on the answer, I would either tell her to explore her feelings or dump her boyfriend. If she indeed wanted to explore these sex options, then I would have told her to check out the internet and see if these sex role playing scenarios really appealed to her. I've seen them, and they don't do anything for me, I rolled my eyes and thought - what a waste of my time. As far as these internet videos being harmful is concerned, I didn't get excited/addicted and say OMG I have to do this now. Just as long as there's mutual consent and nobody is getting hurt, I won't judge people who enjoy those sorts of things. That's the problem with the edited video you posted, I couldn't get the full context of what was asked and how it was answered.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 13:05:41 GMT -6
Ken,
btw, your response was condescending and judgmental, anyone having the courage to ask such questions would have written you off in the credibility department. Compared to you, that PP nurse did a pretty good job.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 13:24:47 GMT -6
Ken,
At what age is kinky sex okay?
You keep bringing up age in this discussion. Let's assume that a 15 year old was asking these questions, where were the parents in this child's life, and how much of a role does religion/Christianity play in this sexually active child's life? It seems that a lot has to break down before someone her age arrives at a PP clinic inquiring about SM sex. You don't look at it from the PP nurse's perspective, do you? How many horror stories has she heard concerning parental and Christian responsibilities that were abandoned?
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 14:21:59 GMT -6
Ken, btw, your response was condescending and judgmental, anyone having the courage to ask such questions would have written you off in the credibility department. Compared to you, that PP nurse did a pretty good job. In your world, I suppose it might seem that way. Since I minister to youth on a continual basis (and judging by their current reposes) - I think you are out of touch and perhaps approaching it in an old fashioned way .
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 14:30:27 GMT -6
Ken, At what age is kinky sex okay? You keep bringing up age in this discussion. Let's assume that a 15 year old was asking these questions, where were the parents in this child's life, and how much of a role does religion/Christianity play in this sexually active child's life? It seems that a lot has to break down before someone her age arrives at a PP clinic inquiring about SM sex. You don't look at it from the PP nurse's perspective, do you? How many horror stories has she heard concerning parental and Christian responsibilities that were abandoned? Horror stories is correct. Does horror stories make it OK to give a license for the counselor to put a stamp of approval on it? How many times did they report rape? child molestation?
You will have to rephrase the "Christianity" question. You are right that a lot has to break down before someone her age arrives at PP... but it sounds like you are suggesting that if someone is coming in as an abused and battered person that the nurse should just pat her on the back and say "A lot of people do it... so its OK".
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 14:31:50 GMT -6
I would have told her to take three spankings and call me in the morning. After that urge subsided, I would have asked her if it was her curiosity motivating her to ask these questions or if her boyfriend was pushing her to do these things. Depending on the answer, I would either tell her to explore her feelings or dump her boyfriend. If she indeed wanted to explore these sex options, then I would have told her to check out the internet and see if these sex role playing scenarios really appealed to her. I've seen them, and they don't do anything for me, I rolled my eyes and thought - what a waste of my time. As far as these internet videos being harmful is concerned, I didn't get excited/addicted and say OMG I have to do this now. Just as long as there's mutual consent and nobody is getting hurt, I won't judge people who enjoy those sorts of things. That's the problem with the edited video you posted, I couldn't get the full context of what was asked and how it was answered. OK. I'm glad you aren't my daughter's counselor. Questions are good, but it was lack of good direction that gets most young people in their problem in the first place. To direct her back to "internet counseling" is hardly good direction.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 19:15:17 GMT -6
Ken,
I guess that's why god pays you the big bucks, to come up with non-responses. I really didn't see any counseling in your response, but I guess one child is expendable when you weigh in all the others you've saved. I said nothing about internet counseling, but I'll just chalk that up to your regular offerings of red herrings and strawman arguments. Children and adults are going to explore their feelings, what can I say, so you can either be there to guide them or stand on the sidelines. It's obvious you have no clue how to handle these sorts of questions.
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Post by ken on Aug 14, 2014 20:25:11 GMT -6
Ken, I guess that's why god pays you the big bucks, to come up with non-responses. I really didn't see any counseling in your response, but I guess one child is expendable when you weigh in all the others you've saved. I said nothing about internet counseling, but I'll just chalk that up to your regular offerings of red herrings and strawman arguments. Children and adults are going to explore their feelings, what can I say, so you can either be there to guide them or stand on the sidelines. It's obvious you have no clue how to handle these sorts of questions. If that is your position... I can live with it. Doesn't change the fact that the nurse was way off on her counseling.
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Post by stevec on Aug 14, 2014 21:15:40 GMT -6
Ken, I guess that's why god pays you the big bucks, to come up with non-responses. I really didn't see any counseling in your response, but I guess one child is expendable when you weigh in all the others you've saved. I said nothing about internet counseling, but I'll just chalk that up to your regular offerings of red herrings and strawman arguments. Children and adults are going to explore their feelings, what can I say, so you can either be there to guide them or stand on the sidelines. It's obvious you have no clue how to handle these sorts of questions. If that is your position... I can live with it. Doesn't change the fact that the nurse was way off on her counseling. compared to your counseling, she sounds like a genius. The internet video advice is basically a harmless way to explore the subject without actually putting yourself into a compromising situation. It appeared, though I know the scenario was scripted, that the young girl was eager to explore kinky sex. I have yet to read your advice that might stop such an eager student, but go ahead and change the subject and/or offer the usual red herrings. If what you offered previously is good advice, I guess you can chalk it up to win some lose some.
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Post by showmedot on Aug 15, 2014 7:47:50 GMT -6
I never ignore good, intelligent, and logical questions. Trolling, irrelevant and illogical questions are always placed to the wayside. But when problems appear again and again in multiple sites, we now have a systemic problem and not an isolated person problem. No, we know from extensive experience, Ken, that you simply ignore most questions that make you squirm, particularly those that you don't want to answer because it's pretty evident your basic view is that all any teenager should be told is, "You don't need to know about any kind of sex that isn't intended to produce babies within a good heterosexual marriage. You shouldn't WANT to know about other kinds of sex, certainly not anything abnormal like S&M. You absolutely shouldn't be thinking about doing ANYthing sexual at your age. Now, go take a cold shower and read your New Testament." (Recommending only that part since all that David/Bathsheba and Abraham/Hagar stuff might give the kid ideas, not to mention all those OT laws about nasty stuff!) [Edit to add: Interestingly, though I hadn't yet noticed when I composed the above what you told Steve you might say to such a teenager, it proves to have been pretty much as I called it here. Quelle surprise.] As for these supposed repeated problems that you insist are widespread throughout Planned Parenthood, mega-BULLSHIT. Total and complete crap. You've been challenged every time you beat this rotting dead horse to demonstrate that this is more than an isolated problem occurring infrequently. You can't do that because your sources have no conscience about editing or outright lying to support their agenda of "Just say no until marriage." They'll use whatever cheat it takes to promote as true what you and your ilk prefer to hear.
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Post by stevec on Aug 15, 2014 8:26:07 GMT -6
Ken,
If isolated incidents are indicative of widespread corruption, then I guess Mark Driscoll's latest problems is indicative of evangelical Christianity's widespread corruption. You should concentrate on cleaning your own house before you tackle PP. Is that a log in your eye?
Btw, since it seems like we're at the end of this latest forum debacle of yours and it appears I won't get anymore info from you, I'd like to point out that your advice to the young girl sounded like an old pick up line. "What's a pretty girl like you doing in a place like this" won't put you into counseling's book of who's who, though you might get picked up by the police if you continue along those lines.
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