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Post by stevec on Jul 24, 2014 15:17:12 GMT -6
I agree because it matches the precedent given in scripture. I also agree because it matches the nature of God. As far as the names, I don't see why God would have to give a list of names of every prophet He sent as it isn't relevant IMO. True, as most Prophets were specific for the people they were sent to and not relevant to us. Oh, so they were Rent-A-Prophets. Spit them out and use them up like old u-haul trailers. Does god know what the words dignified and noble mean? It's convenient that you perceive prophets that way, since it fits in naturally with human experience. I don't know what to make of it. I suspect I'm looking for something more godlike, less humanlike - something a little less bloody also, funny even, with a touch of cuteness.
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Post by showmedot on Jul 24, 2014 15:19:18 GMT -6
Depends how you define "prophet," I'd say.
Establishing that seems to me necessary at this juncture.
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Post by ken on Jul 24, 2014 18:50:55 GMT -6
I agree because it matches the precedent given in scripture. I also agree because it matches the nature of God. As far as the names, I don't see why God would have to give a list of names of every prophet He sent as it isn't relevant IMO. Surely then, name one nonbiblical, nonchristian prophet? So you eliminated all Jewish prophets (non-Christian), we mentioned the reality that we don't know all the prophets and that assuredly God has sent prophets to the nations (you have eliminated the ones that went to the world by your statement) and you want me to produce one? I'm not a prophet to give you that answer. I haven't searched for one and, quite frankly, don't need to or want to. Scripturally, there are many prophets that aren't named. There was even a school of the prophets (no names given) -- where they went, we don't know. I assume they went where God told them to go.
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Post by stevec on Jul 24, 2014 21:26:14 GMT -6
Surely then, name one nonbiblical, nonchristian prophet? So you eliminated all Jewish prophets (non-Christian), we mentioned the reality that we don't know all the prophets and that assuredly God has sent prophets to the nations (you have eliminated the ones that went to the world by your statement) and you want me to produce one? I'm not a prophet to give you that answer. I haven't searched for one and, quite frankly, don't need to or want to. Scripturally, there are many prophets that aren't named. There was even a school of the prophets (no names given) -- where they went, we don't know. I assume they went where God told them to go. Like I thought, you never intended to support woodrowli's claim. There's only one batch of prophets you support. If it ain't biblical and it ain't Christian, you don't believe anyone can be a prophet. That's right in step with your belief that only Jesus can lead us to god. I'll have to Google this prophet school so I can laugh at its failures. btw, I eliminated Jewish prophets with the term, "nonbiblical", not with the word, "Christian". How about, Gandhi, was he a prophet? And Joseph Smith?
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Post by woodrowli on Jul 24, 2014 21:39:31 GMT -6
A strong candidate would be Buddha. Another would be who ever revealed Wakan Tonka to the Lakota. While we do not know that person's ( may have been many more than one person) name we do know Wakan Tonka is very similar to the Abrahamic God.
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Post by stevec on Jul 24, 2014 21:57:04 GMT -6
A strong candidate would be Buddha. Another would be who ever revealed Wakan Tonka to the Lakota. While we do not know that person's ( may have been many more than one person) name we do know Wakan Tonka is very similar to the Abrahamic God. I would agree with you, they are definitely prophets in my book. Of course, my definition for prophet is very loose, and my standards are low. The only requirement, are far as I'm concerned, is that they make stuff up and get a few people to nod in agreement. Success is relative to the number of bobble heads they accumulate. Let's see if Ken agrees with your candidates.
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Post by ken on Jul 25, 2014 11:19:15 GMT -6
A strong candidate would be Buddha. Another would be who ever revealed Wakan Tonka to the Lakota. While we do not know that person's ( may have been many more than one person) name we do know Wakan Tonka is very similar to the Abrahamic God. I would agree with you, they are definitely prophets in my book. Of course, my definition for prophet is very loose, and my standards are low. The only requirement, are far as I'm concerned, is that they make stuff up and get a few people to nod in agreement. Success is relative to the number of bobble heads they accumulate. Let's see if Ken agrees with your candidates. As Woodrowll mentioned, candidates are candidates. I am not the one to validate their position and I am sure that Woodrowll is saying that they were but rather candidates. Incidentally, Steve, before Abraham there were no Jewish prophets... just prophets and non-Jewish at that. IMO, I wouldn't include Joseph Smith as it wasn't a "people group" he was sent to. In-as-much as we had mentioned we don't have a "list", how do you want me to create that list, especially if you don't want me to use a list?
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Post by stevec on Jul 25, 2014 17:50:41 GMT -6
I would agree with you, they are definitely prophets in my book. Of course, my definition for prophet is very loose, and my standards are low. The only requirement, are far as I'm concerned, is that they make stuff up and get a few people to nod in agreement. Success is relative to the number of bobble heads they accumulate. Let's see if Ken agrees with your candidates. As Woodrowll mentioned, candidates are candidates. I am not the one to validate their position and I am sure that Woodrowll is saying that they were but rather candidates. Incidentally, Steve, before Abraham there were no Jewish prophets... just prophets and non-Jewish at that. IMO, I wouldn't include Joseph Smith as it wasn't a "people group" he was sent to. In-as-much as we had mentioned we don't have a "list", how do you want me to create that list, especially if you don't want me to use a list?
That means only one thing, you were playing lip service to Woodrowli's claim that prophets have been sent by god to every culture in every time period. Woodrowli's claim was inclusive, you mimicked the claim hoping to make your god seem inclusive - that's a big fat 0 in that department. Read what Woodrowli states and think about it before you try to jump on his bandwagon.
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Post by ken on Jul 25, 2014 19:31:54 GMT -6
As Woodrowll mentioned, candidates are candidates. I am not the one to validate their position and I am sure that Woodrowll is saying that they were but rather candidates. Incidentally, Steve, before Abraham there were no Jewish prophets... just prophets and non-Jewish at that. IMO, I wouldn't include Joseph Smith as it wasn't a "people group" he was sent to. In-as-much as we had mentioned we don't have a "list", how do you want me to create that list, especially if you don't want me to use a list?
That means only one thing, you were playing lip service to Woodrowli's claim that prophets have been sent by god to every culture in every time period. Woodrowli's claim was inclusive, you mimicked the claim hoping to make your god seem inclusive - that's a big fat 0 in that department. Read what Woodrowli states and think about it before you try to jump on his bandwagon. Only in your logic and desire for it to be so. That's the reason you had to squeeze it and massage the parameters set up your own limits so as make it do what you wanted it to do. You would be great at creating your own survey to make it say what you want.
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Post by stevec on Jul 25, 2014 21:56:53 GMT -6
That means only one thing, you were playing lip service to Woodrowli's claim that prophets have been sent by god to every culture in every time period. Woodrowli's claim was inclusive, you mimicked the claim hoping to make your god seem inclusive - that's a big fat 0 in that department. Read what Woodrowli states and think about it before you try to jump on his bandwagon. Only in your logic and desire for it to be so. That's the reason you had to squeeze it and massage the parameters set up your own limits so as make it do what you wanted it to do. You would be great at creating your own survey to make it say what you want. Ask me any question concerning prophets you'd like. I'm not afraid to answer. I don't have any problem answering the same question I asked you, if that's what you would like. You get yourself to tied up in knots, so fearful of offending your god, that you forget what honesty means. I didn't create a survey, do much as you've locked in answers that make you look foolish. Don't jump on woodrowli's bandwagon when you're not ready to support your claims. Your concept of prophets is not the same as woodrowli's.
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Post by ken on Jul 26, 2014 9:28:58 GMT -6
Only in your logic and desire for it to be so. That's the reason you had to squeeze it and massage the parameters set up your own limits so as make it do what you wanted it to do. You would be great at creating your own survey to make it say what you want. Ask me any question concerning prophets you'd like. I'm not afraid to answer. I don't have any problem answering the same question I asked you, if that's what you would like. You get yourself to tied up in knots, so fearful of offending your god, that you forget what honesty means. I didn't create a survey, do much as you've locked in answers that make you look foolish. Don't jump on woodrowli's bandwagon when you're not ready to support your claims. Your concept of prophets is not the same as woodrowli's. The issue was that we both believe that prophets were sent to everybody and whether we agree on who is irrelevant. As you ramble and try to pin me as "up in knots"... hehehehehe... it becomes quite obvious by the multiplicity of your finger pointing to all faiths that there is only one person in knots here and it's k-not-s me or Woodro.
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Post by stevec on Jul 26, 2014 11:08:33 GMT -6
I wanted to find the prophets that represented woodrowli's claim for all cultures and all generations, and you couldn't support that claim using my parameters. I considered myself and woodrowli to be on the same page in that regard, more so than you and woodrowli.
Let's switch to your parameters, what prophets were sent by god to the Chinese and Mayan empires? Feel free to answer any way you'd like.
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Post by ken on Jul 26, 2014 13:24:06 GMT -6
I consider that when the Apostles went all over the world, it was prophets going to the world I consider that when Enoch (a non-jee) preached to the Gentiles, it was to a dying world I consider that when even Mohammad said to get away from false gods, it was God speaking through him Even when Nebuchadnezzar said " 25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." it was a revelation given by God. Who knows, God may even use you.
If He can use a donkey, he can use anyone. (no inference that you are a donkey but rather God can use anyone)
As far as the Chinese... it is believe than Thomas went there. As far as the Mayan, I have no idea but interestingly enough they understood the power of blood covenant--however, over time, it got twisted. Another person said "Interesting question. We'll never truly know. ... ...Aztecs strongly believed in Quetzalcoatl, a God who had white skin and was to return to save the world."
So apparently someone went over there.
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Post by stevec on Jul 26, 2014 22:07:57 GMT -6
I consider that when the Apostles went all over the world, it was prophets going to the world I consider that when Enoch (a non-jee) preached to the Gentiles, it was to a dying world I consider that when even Mohammad said to get away from false gods, it was God speaking through him Even when Nebuchadnezzar said " 25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." it was a revelation given by God.Who knows, God may even use you.
If He can use a donkey, he can use anyone. (no inference that you are a donkey but rather God can use anyone)
As far as the Chinese... it is believe than Thomas went there. As far as the Mayan, I have no idea but interestingly enough they understood the power of blood covenant--however, over time, it got twisted. Another person said "Interesting question. We'll never truly know. ... ...Aztecs strongly believed in Quetzalcoatl, a God who had white skin and was to return to save the world."
So apparently someone went over there.Okay, now I believe you, but you have to admit that if god uses other religions and non-christians to spread his message, then all religions are equal in his eyes. Why would god validate other religions and non-christian authority figures with his messages, if that weren't true.
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Post by woodrowli on Jul 27, 2014 7:06:05 GMT -6
I consider that when the Apostles went all over the world, it was prophets going to the world I consider that when Enoch (a non-jee) preached to the Gentiles, it was to a dying world I consider that when even Mohammad said to get away from false gods, it was God speaking through him Even when Nebuchadnezzar said " 25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." it was a revelation given by God.Who knows, God may even use you.
If He can use a donkey, he can use anyone. (no inference that you are a donkey but rather God can use anyone)
As far as the Chinese... it is believe than Thomas went there. As far as the Mayan, I have no idea but interestingly enough they understood the power of blood covenant--however, over time, it got twisted. Another person said "Interesting question. We'll never truly know. ... ...Aztecs strongly believed in Quetzalcoatl, a God who had white skin and was to return to save the world."
So apparently someone went over there.Okay, now I believe you, but you have to admit that if god uses other religions and non-christians to spread his message, then all religions are equal in his eyes. Why would god validate other religions and non-christian authority figures with his messages, if that weren't true. No matter how often a message gets given, there will be those who mess it up. either by error or deliberate deceit. The question will always come down to be "Who has the Correct one?" that is where individual searching and verification comes in. We all have to be searchers and always verifying what we fined.
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