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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 10, 2014 10:52:41 GMT -6
You can keep someone who's brain dead alive for a long, long time. Stable in this case means stable (heart beating) but still brain dead. There is nothing quite so stable as death.
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Post by showmedot on Jan 10, 2014 11:44:10 GMT -6
You can keep someone who's brain dead alive for a long, long time. Stable in this case means stable (heart beating) but still brain dead. There is nothing quite so stable as death. Got it, thanks. After I asked that, I remembered hearing of pregnant women brain-dead as the result of car accidents who've been kept alive for several months until the fetus was developed enough to be delivered. Now, I'm wondering what the lawyer thinks constitutes "improving." Probably that she was looking dehydrated and had lost a notable amount of weight. What with a feeding tube inserted, they can get the body looking more normal, I suppose. This whole thing strikes me as just too grotesque for words.
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Post by stevec on Jan 10, 2014 12:08:10 GMT -6
These are the same people who look adoringly on a bloodied dying man nailed to a cross. Grotesque makes their world go 'round.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 10, 2014 12:17:03 GMT -6
I remembered hearing of pregnant women brain-dead as the result of car accidents who've been kept alive for several months until the fetus was developed enough to be delivered. That would be an example of a case where long term life support could be a reasonable ethical option, IMO. I suppose some consideration would have to be given to the likelihood of arriving at term, but at least in that case there is something to be gained.
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Post by showmedot on Jan 10, 2014 13:49:50 GMT -6
I remembered hearing of pregnant women brain-dead as the result of car accidents who've been kept alive for several months until the fetus was developed enough to be delivered. That would be an example of a case where long term life support could be a reasonable ethical option, IMO. I suppose some consideration would have to be given to the likelihood of arriving at term, but at least in that case there is something to be gained. Agreed. I have no problem with situations of that sort where there is a reasonable expectation of good to arise from catastrophe. I don't know. Maybe keeping this girl's body going will give her family time to realize that brain-dead means she's not there anymore and won't ever wake up again. Who knows?
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 10, 2014 15:27:44 GMT -6
That would be an example of a case where long term life support could be a reasonable ethical option, IMO. I suppose some consideration would have to be given to the likelihood of arriving at term, but at least in that case there is something to be gained. Agreed. I have no problem with situations of that sort where there is a reasonable expectation of good to arise from catastrophe. I don't know. Maybe keeping this girl's body going will give her family time to realize that brain-dead means she's not there anymore and won't ever wake up again. Who knows? Well, that's why we don't "pull the plug" five minutes after determination of brain death. Generally, a few hours or even a day or two are given to get the family around, answer questions, initiate grief interventions etc. After a month of this, it's clear that the problem is non-acceptance, and indulging it does no one any favors.
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Post by showmedot on Jan 10, 2014 18:55:44 GMT -6
What pisses me off is that the family and their lawyer are painting the hospital as the villain.
I guess no matter how gently and clearly a situation like this is explained, there will always be someone who simply refuses to accept reality.
Not that we know this to be the case here, but when people are encouraged to think that prayer may result in a miracle, this is the sort of debacle that so easily can occur.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 10, 2014 20:09:13 GMT -6
What pisses me off is that the family and their lawyer are painting the hospital as the villain. I guess no matter how gently and clearly a situation like this is explained, there will always be someone who simply refuses to accept reality. Not that we know this to be the case here, but when people are encouraged to think that prayer may result in a miracle, this is the sort of debacle that so easily can occur. The girl died after a tonsillectomy. The odds of this, IIRC, are about 1/10,000. There may or may not have been negligence involved, but I have yet to read anything that suggests that there was. However, the almost certain dynamic is that the hospital feared litigation, and thus acted timidly in the face of parental resistance until this situation got ridiculously out of hand. Speculative irony here: tort reform is often portrayed as the panacea of health care reform by conservatives, who are now rallying around the family of the deceased. If tort reform were in place, the hospital likely would have removed life support a long time ago.
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Post by stevec on Jan 11, 2014 10:43:04 GMT -6
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Post by stevec on Jan 11, 2014 10:50:18 GMT -6
What pisses me off is that the family and their lawyer are painting the hospital as the villain. I guess no matter how gently and clearly a situation like this is explained, there will always be someone who simply refuses to accept reality. Not that we know this to be the case here, but when people are encouraged to think that prayer may result in a miracle, this is the sort of debacle that so easily can occur. Malleo would like you to believe the hospital was the villain also by claiming she was dead and ending her life support.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 11, 2014 12:13:30 GMT -6
Look on the bright side…this event will be a fantastic way to demonstrate God's yawning indifference to prayer and the utter bullshit of faith healing to hundreds of kids.
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Post by ken on Jan 11, 2014 15:53:33 GMT -6
Look on the bright side…this event will be a fantastic way to demonstrate God's yawning indifference to prayer and the utter bullshit of faith healing to hundreds of kids. You funny! haha...hahaha... HAHAHAhaha... HAHAHAHAHAHA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 11, 2014 16:18:25 GMT -6
I suppose you expect her to be healed?
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Post by stevec on Jan 11, 2014 20:17:56 GMT -6
Look on the bright side…this event will be a fantastic way to demonstrate God's yawning indifference to prayer and the utter bullshit of faith healing to hundreds of kids. You funny! haha...hahaha... HAHAHAhaha... HAHAHAHAHAHA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA There's another faith healing thread that I started yesterday that I believe you might fond giggle worthy.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 11, 2014 20:20:06 GMT -6
You funny! haha...hahaha... HAHAHAhaha... HAHAHAHAHAHA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA There's another faith healing thread that I started yesterday that I believe you might fond giggle worthy. Maniacal laughter in the place of an actual coherent response. He has no logical response to my statement.
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