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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 9:43:30 GMT -6
Was the embezzler reelected as the community pastor? Dawkins did nothing that any PG preacher wouldn't do. Dawkins is was still the community pastor - quoted and venerated. And, yes, there are many preachers that are like Dawkins... difference being is that I admit it while you ignore it incidentally... the pastor was Baptist. Reality check... we all need Jesus! (Whether we admit it or not) And we don't preach people as it is written "We don't go around preaching about ourselves; we preach Christ Jesus, the Lord. " - It is what Jesus did and does that is important and not what people do.
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Post by showmedot on Sept 27, 2014 11:19:26 GMT -6
One of these days, Ken, perhaps you''ll realize that Dawkins does not have the same mandatory respect from atheists that Christians are expected to have for their pastors/priests.
A lot of atheists of my acquaintance think him too extreme and opinionated about nonbelief.
He IS NOT akin to a Christian pastor in that atheists are quite free to loathe everything he says about atheism and the manner in which he says it if they wish. They may even detest him as unethical and unworthy of everyday regard if they determine that to be justified.
You keep forgetting that we are not obliged to worship anyone or anything, indeed find the very thought of doing so ridiculous.
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Post by stevec on Sept 27, 2014 11:28:46 GMT -6
Was the embezzler reelected as the community pastor? Dawkins did nothing that any PG preacher wouldn't do. Dawkins is was still the community pastor - quoted and venerated. And, yes, there are many preachers that are like Dawkins... difference being is that I admit it while you ignore it incidentally... the pastor was Baptist. Reality check... we all need Jesus! (Whether we admit it or not) And we don't preach people as it is written "We don't go around preaching about ourselves; we preach Christ Jesus, the Lord. " - It is what Jesus did and does that is important and not what people do. I'll do you one better. Dawkins is the atheist equivalent of PG preachers - writing, lecturing, and acquiring fame and fortune on spiritual matters, - well you know, basically being a leech on society. Baptist, PG preacher, Rabbi, all the same in the end.
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Post by stevec on Sept 27, 2014 11:37:22 GMT -6
Ken,
As someone who preaches Jesus, you must have an opinion on the likes of Copeland, Osteen, and Hinn. I gave you my impressions of Dawkins, you must have an opinion of those three, let's read it.
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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 14:11:16 GMT -6
Dawkins is was still the community pastor - quoted and venerated. And, yes, there are many preachers that are like Dawkins... difference being is that I admit it while you ignore it incidentally... the pastor was Baptist. Reality check... we all need Jesus! (Whether we admit it or not) And we don't preach people as it is written "We don't go around preaching about ourselves; we preach Christ Jesus, the Lord. " - It is what Jesus did and does that is important and not what people do. I'll do you one better. Dawkins is the atheist equivalent of PG preachers - writing, lecturing, and acquiring fame and fortune on spiritual matters, - well you know, basically being a leech on society. Baptist, PG preacher, Rabbi, all the same in the end. I'm sure that indeed you are right. There are many preachers that are Dawkins equivalents. However, the vast majority are down to earth "let's make a difference" type of people.
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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 14:25:32 GMT -6
Ken, As someone who preaches Jesus, you must have an opinion on the likes of Copeland, Osteen, and Hinn. I gave you my impressions of Dawkins, you must have an opinion of those three, let's read it. Steve, It is you that is always hurtling "the pointed finger" at people. Do you feel more justified because "you are better" than they are? Are you trying to establish a "holier than thou" position to make you feel better? Let's get to brass tacks. I have made no secret that if it had not been for Jesus, I would have moved forward in the business world at the expense of my wife and children like my dad. (Remember making the actual decision). And you want me to go around and point fingers at other people? No, I am in the list of "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
The only reason I post sites is so that you can see that everybody is in the same boat. We have pastors who milk the system and we have atheists that milk the system. Perhaps you are the only perfect person on this world. For a change, let me ask you a question... do you know their hearts? Hearts intent? And you want me to take the position of God and judge them? What have they given away? When they had $100 to their name and God told them to give it... did they? When they had $1,000 to their name and God said "Give it all", did they? When they had just paid off a home and God said, "Give it to so and so"... did they? Let me ask you another question... the thief on the cross, did Jesus point a finger and list all that he did wrong or just say "Today, I will see you in paradise". And you want me to start judging everyones heart? I am in charge of myself! PERIOD! and those that God entrusted unto me. I preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, period. Money is not the god that I am preaching. If I start preaching on every pastor that is wrong, makes mistakes and it on the fringe, I will end up not preaching about Jesus Christ. I wasn't called to preach "YOU ARE GOING TO HELL" - it isn't the gospel. I was called to preach "Peace and good will toward men for God so loved the world". Does God want to heal? yes. Does everyone get healed? no. Does God want to provide? Yes. Is everyone provided for? no. But I don't look to God for what isn't accomplished because God gave the world all it needs to make it happen. Man continues to mess it up. Is it wrong to have money? no - otherwise we should all be in the poverty gospel preaching that you desire which means you too should be poor. What God doesn't want is money to have you. He doesn't want money to be your God.
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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 14:31:52 GMT -6
One of these days, Ken, perhaps you''ll realize that Dawkins does not have the same mandatory respect from atheists that Christians are expected to have for their pastors/priests. A lot of atheists of my acquaintance think him too extreme and opinionated about nonbelief. He IS NOT akin to a Christian pastor in that atheists are quite free to loathe everything he says about atheism and the manner in which he says it if they wish. They may even detest him as unethical and unworthy of everyday regard if they determine that to be justified. You keep forgetting that we are not obliged to worship anyone or anything, indeed find the very thought of doing so ridiculous. I would disagree by the amount of people that extol Dawkins and quote Dawkins. Just recently I saw, on a talk show, another person extolling his position. There are many people who do not have respect for certain pastors. Pastors are not God. We are not "obliged to worship" any person. On the contrary, we are told not to worship people. So it is the same in any camp including atheism. Some people check out the brains and others keep them.
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Post by showmedot on Sept 27, 2014 16:36:33 GMT -6
And you assess how Dawkins is regarded by atheists by what some famous-for-fifteen-minutes talking head says on tv or in print?
I'm telling you you're stereotyping atheists just as you accuse Steve of doing where Christian ministers are concerned.
Atheists are just as varied in their characters and opinions as are Christians or anyone else interested in seeming reasonable.
And, to clarify, I wasn't by any means suggesting that Christians worship any person, merely trying to point up that for atheists, an individual is generally required to prove self worthy of respect or admiration. "Veneration" suggests that atheists do as directed by their (non-existent) leaders. On the contrary, they think for themselves and don't tend to believe what anybody says unless it passes the test put upon it by their reasoning and life experience.
So, yes, some think Dawkins a wonder and marvel and perhaps idolize him. But only some. I myself think he has laid out very logical reasons and evidence why it's highly improbable any deities exist. However, he himself maintains as do many atheists that he will gladly reverse that view should evidence be found indicating that there may indeed be deities.
I've read The God Delusion. Have you?
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Post by stevec on Sept 27, 2014 16:49:57 GMT -6
Ken,
Don't judge Osteen, Copeland, and Hinn, I want your opinion of their lifestyles.
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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 20:16:13 GMT -6
Ken, Don't judge Osteen, Copeland, and Hinn, I want your opinion of their lifestyles. I prefer judging your lifestyle.
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Post by ken on Sept 27, 2014 20:27:58 GMT -6
To general Dot. I can also quote professors who quote them. If you read carefully, it is your second statement that I have been saying and hoping that Steve will finally come to that conclusion. I understand through your clarification. It is also what Christians do by and large. I don't think they are logical -- but it is just differences of opinions No. Why do you feel I should have read it?
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Post by stevec on Sept 27, 2014 20:57:24 GMT -6
Steve, It is you that is always hurtling "the pointed finger" at people. Do you feel more justified because "you are better" than they are? Are you trying to establish a "holier than thou" position to make you feel better? I am a better person than Osteen, Copeland, and Hinn combined. They are con men, plain and simple. I don't need a holier than thou position to feel better than those guys. Here's your chance to separate yourself from the other PG preachers. Name some names, who are those pastors that milk the system? I submitted three, who are your candidates? More perfect than Copeland and Hinn, that's for sure. Yes I do, they're made of $$$$$$$ I've asked you to provide evidence of their generosity, and you've responded with nothing short of speculation. Copeland's generosity has been linked with fraud. Lol, hanging on a cross sort of changes one's perspective, and levels the playing field. It's almost impossible to feel superior when you've been whipped and nailed to a cross. No I want you to judge their jobs. You're not in charge of yourself when you can't even express an opinion on other PG preachers' shoddy spirituality. For someone who has no problem expressing his opinion on gays and how they conduct their lives, I find it bizarre that you lose your nerve when confronted with PG preachers' sins. Yup, I heard that rumor.
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Post by stevec on Sept 27, 2014 21:09:59 GMT -6
Ken, Don't judge Osteen, Copeland, and Hinn, I want your opinion of their lifestyles. I prefer judging your lifestyle. Go right ahead, I dont mind. For the sake of fairness, please to make sure you critique Osteen's, Copeland's, and Hinn's at the same time.
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Post by ken on Sept 28, 2014 4:08:35 GMT -6
I prefer judging your lifestyle. Go right ahead, I dont mind. For the sake of fairness, please to make sure you critique Osteen's, Copeland's, and Hinn's at the same time. You don't get it... I wouldn't judge you either. I would preach Jesus to you, "For God so loved Steve, that He gave him His only begotten son... for He sent His son not to condemn Steve but to save Steve". This message has been approved by Holy Spirit and me! (And I'm sticking to it)
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Post by stevec on Sept 28, 2014 8:04:12 GMT -6
Go right ahead, I dont mind. For the sake of fairness, please to make sure you critique Osteen's, Copeland's, and Hinn's at the same time. You don't get it... I wouldn't judge you either. I would preach Jesus to you, "For God so loved Steve, that He gave him His only begotten son... for He sent His son not to condemn Steve but to save Steve". This message has been approved by Holy Spirit and me! (And I'm sticking to it) So you don't have an opinion of thieves, prostitutes, or drug addicts? You're okay with Planned Parenthood activities and believe PP is a good carreer choice, in addition, you brlieve it's okay to have an abortion? You have no opinion of people who don't subscribe to your family values doctrines, have children outside of marriage, or live their lives as active gay members of society? You don't have a problem with gay marriage or gays adopting children? You have no issues with Obama, his administration, or any of his programs instituted during his tenure as president? You believe liberals are doing a fine job of guiding this country? In conclusion, you deny having expressed an opinion concerning or opposing any of the above because that would be construed as having judged people and their activities? Am I correct with these assessments?
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