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Clergy
May 27, 2014 19:18:53 GMT -6
Post by Flitzerbiest on May 27, 2014 19:18:53 GMT -6
I think we're getting somewhere--I found a link! Take a look: www.courtclerk.org/case_summary.asp?sec=history&casenumber=A0901484I'm going to email Trout and see if he'll take a look at this. I'm not really sure what exactly I am seeing. There appear to be some really low-ball costs (perhaps just court fees?). I am also drawn to the phrase "Notice of dismissal with prejudice", which, if I am not mistaken, simply means that a judgment is final and not subject to re-trial. However, it seems to attach itself with some frequency to bogus suits, in my very limited experience. There is also reference to sealed records, so I'm not sure we'll get to find out what happened. Again, if you know more, please let me know. Similarly, if you are aware of any cases with attestation outside of pro-life advocacy sites, please feel free to add them to the discussion.
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Clergy
May 27, 2014 19:40:56 GMT -6
Post by stevec on May 27, 2014 19:40:56 GMT -6
Offer some opinions on Benny Hinn and Ken Copeland. Do they have sincere hearts? More so than any abortion doctor? If so, tell me why? You are asking me to judge the hearts? NO WAY, JOSE!! I leave that part to Jesus. Each will stand before God, by themselves. I don't judge yours or Flitz's either. The mercy of God is towards everyone, including the abortion doctors (I don't judge their hearts either), Benny, Steve, Copeland and Flitz. (He doesn't have favorites) Okay, so on to part 2. What do you think about Hinn's and Copeland's ministry practices?
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Clergy
May 27, 2014 19:45:20 GMT -6
Post by Flitzerbiest on May 27, 2014 19:45:20 GMT -6
Further, the buzillion reiterations of these charges on the net tend, like you do, to accuse PP of pedophilic crimes. To the best of my ability to tell, there hasn't been a single report of PP staff perpetrating an act of statutory rape. This is in stark contrast to what has occurred in the RCC, where Catholic clergy ARE the perpetrators. The failure to report such an action is to participate in the same. No different than a person driving the car while the accomplice robs the bank. That simply isn't true. I am a mandatory reporter*, and I know the law on this. I have to review it annually. If I fail to report sexual assault of a minor, I could be convicted of a misdemeanor and be subject to fines and/or loss of licensure. I could not be convicted of accessory to rape, which would be a felony, punishable by mandatory jail time. I know that you think I am defending abortion in general and Planned Parenthood in particular. If anything I am defending rational discourse on the issue. Why you find it necessary to cloud the debate with disinformation is beyond me. * Incidentally, so are you, so misrepresenting the law here is particularly odd.
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Clergy
May 27, 2014 21:20:56 GMT -6
Post by woodrowli on May 27, 2014 21:20:56 GMT -6
Perhaps, which is one reason I oppose any form of ordained clergy. I don't know if your perspective is a good reason for me to oppose ordained clergy necessarily, but a person of the cloth has to go out of his/her way to impress me as being of noble character. I guess you could say that I consider clergy guilty of something unless proven otherwise. I have different/higher standards for clergy, more so than any other profession. We don't have any ordained clergy nor any specific training for such. Each Muslim is considered to be "clergy" there is no separation of duties separating layman from cleric. Those are just terms the media seems to like to use. We have no ceremonies or sacraments that require a "Cleric" to perform.
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Clergy
May 27, 2014 22:07:55 GMT -6
Post by stevec on May 27, 2014 22:07:55 GMT -6
I don't know if your perspective is a good reason for me to oppose ordained clergy necessarily, but a person of the cloth has to go out of his/her way to impress me as being of noble character. I guess you could say that I consider clergy guilty of something unless proven otherwise. I have different/higher standards for clergy, more so than any other profession. We don't have any ordained clergy nor any specific training for such. Each Muslim is considered to be "clergy" there is no separation of duties separating layman from cleric. Those are just terms the media seems to like to use. We have no ceremonies or sacraments that require a "Cleric" to perform. That isn't exactly accurate, you do have ordained clerics, perhaps not in your in your spiritual sphere, but the rest of the Islamic world certainly has them. It doesn't matter if one sect does and another doesn't, it's the end result that counts.
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Clergy
May 27, 2014 23:07:39 GMT -6
Post by woodrowli on May 27, 2014 23:07:39 GMT -6
We don't have any ordained clergy nor any specific training for such. Each Muslim is considered to be "clergy" there is no separation of duties separating layman from cleric. Those are just terms the media seems to like to use. We have no ceremonies or sacraments that require a "Cleric" to perform. That isn't exactly accurate, you do have ordained clerics, perhaps not in your in your spiritual sphere, but the rest of the Islamic world certainly has them. It doesn't matter if one sect does and another doesn't, it's the end result that counts. I'll do a cut and paste here SOURCE
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 7:21:38 GMT -6
Post by ken on May 28, 2014 7:21:38 GMT -6
The failure to report such an action is to participate in the same. No different than a person driving the car while the accomplice robs the bank. That simply isn't true. I am a mandatory reporter*, and I know the law on this. I have to review it annually. If I fail to report sexual assault of a minor, I could be convicted of a misdemeanor and be subject to fines and/or loss of licensure. I could not be convicted of accessory to rape, which would be a felony, punishable by mandatory jail time. I know that you think I am defending abortion in general and Planned Parenthood in particular. If anything I am defending rational discourse on the issue. Why you find it necessary to cloud the debate with disinformation is beyond me. * Incidentally, so are you, so misrepresenting the law here is particularly odd.No, I don't think you are defending abortion (although I know you support it up to a certain point), it sounds like you are defending their bad practices. As far as the law, laws are funny... in your place it is a misdemeanor, in Ohio it is a felony: Therefore, your side note of misrepresenting the law is relative to which state you belong in. (I understand, of course, that you aren't a lawyer and could come to your conclusion with what information you have) I will remain with the understanding that I won't ever comprehend why you blindly support PP no matter what wrong they do.
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 7:23:07 GMT -6
Post by ken on May 28, 2014 7:23:07 GMT -6
You are asking me to judge the hearts? NO WAY, JOSE!! I leave that part to Jesus. Each will stand before God, by themselves. I don't judge yours or Flitz's either. The mercy of God is towards everyone, including the abortion doctors (I don't judge their hearts either), Benny, Steve, Copeland and Flitz. (He doesn't have favorites) Okay, so on to part 2. What do you think about Hinn's and Copeland's ministry practices? I don't follow Hinn so you can come to your conclusion. Can I assume that you are actually referring to the money they have?
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 9:36:35 GMT -6
Post by Flitzerbiest on May 28, 2014 9:36:35 GMT -6
That simply isn't true. I am a mandatory reporter*, and I know the law on this. I have to review it annually. If I fail to report sexual assault of a minor, I could be convicted of a misdemeanor and be subject to fines and/or loss of licensure. I could not be convicted of accessory to rape, which would be a felony, punishable by mandatory jail time. I know that you think I am defending abortion in general and Planned Parenthood in particular. If anything I am defending rational discourse on the issue. Why you find it necessary to cloud the debate with disinformation is beyond me. * Incidentally, so are you, so misrepresenting the law here is particularly odd.No, I don't think you are defending abortion (although I know you support it up to a certain point), it sounds like you are defending their bad practices. As far as the law, laws are funny... in your place it is a misdemeanor, in Ohio it is a felony: Therefore, your side note of misrepresenting the law is relative to which state you belong in. (I understand, of course, that you aren't a lawyer and could come to your conclusion with what information you have) I will remain with the understanding that I won't ever comprehend why you blindly support PP no matter what wrong they do. The point is that non-report emphatically DOES NOT make you an accessory to the crime in the eyes of the law. That settled, can an underage teen, in your opinion, give consent to an older party (say 15 and 21), or is this always rape in your eyes?
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 12:25:08 GMT -6
Post by ken on May 28, 2014 12:25:08 GMT -6
Correct... if you want to go by the letter of the law, it is not an accessory... just guilty in the violation of civil law, moral law, and the law of love and common sense and, in Ohio, a felony.No, not every circumstance is rape. Not sure how that was even a question. When talking about relative morality, you can go to Pakistan and one find the recommendation that even younger than 15 to have intercourse. Those that espouse relative morality certainly could not raise an eyebrow at this custom.
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 13:25:28 GMT -6
Post by woodrowli on May 28, 2014 13:25:28 GMT -6
Correct... if you want to go by the letter of the law, it is not an accessory... just guilty in the violation of civil law, moral law, and the law of love and common sense and, in Ohio, a felony.No, not every circumstance is rape. Not sure how that was even a question. When talking about relative morality, you can go to Pakistan and one find the recommendation that even younger than 15 to have intercourse. Those that espouse relative morality certainly could not raise an eyebrow at this custom. A few things not understood is the Islamic concept of Marriage and Pakistan custom. Marriage is quite a bit different to a Muslim than what it is to a non-Muslim. It is basically a business contract. While it is only permissible for married people to have sexual relations, it is forbidden to do so if either party is below the age of puberty, even if they are married. If a married couple does not consummate the marriage within 3 months after signing the Nikkah either party can declare the marriage null provided they do so before there are any sexual relationships. In Pakistan marriage is very much a contract between 2 families. Many marriages are purely symbolic and will never be consummated. They become completely null as soon as either reaches puberty and decides to marry some one else. Pakistan could probably satisfy everybody simply by doing away with an age requirement for marriage but set a minimum age for anyone to have sexual relations.
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 13:54:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by showmedot on May 28, 2014 13:54:15 GMT -6
Nice work, Ken. How about reproducing the entire paragraph which puts a rather different slant on how serious a crime non-reporting is than you imply is the case? To wit--(emphasis added on the portion tidily omitted) " While in the majority of states failure to report isn't illegal, a small minority of states have enacted laws punishing individuals who fail to report certain types of crimes to the authorities. Under Texas law, for example, you can be charged with a Class A misdemeanor for failing to report an offense that resulted in serious bodily injury or death. In Ohio, on the other hand, it's illegal to knowingly fail to report a felony. - See more at: criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/failure-to-report-a-crime.html#sthash.7me71DFP.rmWVoRor.dpufWhether or not sex with a minor is a felonious assault can vary dramatically from state to state and depends upon varying factors, not simply that one is a minor and the other an adult.
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 15:07:07 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by showmedot on May 28, 2014 15:07:07 GMT -6
That simply isn't true. I am a mandatory reporter*, and I know the law on this. I have to review it annually. If I fail to report sexual assault of a minor, I could be convicted of a misdemeanor and be subject to fines and/or loss of licensure. I could not be convicted of accessory to rape, which would be a felony, punishable by mandatory jail time. I know that you think I am defending abortion in general and Planned Parenthood in particular. If anything I am defending rational discourse on the issue. Why you find it necessary to cloud the debate with disinformation is beyond me. * Incidentally, so are you, so misrepresenting the law here is particularly odd....As far as the law, laws are funny... in your place it is a misdemeanor, in Ohio it is a felony: Therefore, your side note of misrepresenting the law is relative to which state you belong in... Get your own facts straight, Ken, before you start calling foul on FB. NON-REPORTING ISN'T A FELONY IN OHIO EITHER AS IS THE CASE IN THE VAST MAJORITY OF STATES. "A failure to report when required is a misdemeanor in the 4th degree, except in certain circumstances where a violation is a misdemeanor in the first degree (relating to abuse by religious leaders, where the child is under the direct care or supervision of the reporter or making or causing a false report)." www.rainn.org/public-policy/legal-resources/ohio/mandatory-reporting-childrenEdit to add: The source you cited speaks only to its being a felony not to report SOME unspecified crimes in Ohio when the person knows the crime is a felony. Your source doesn't say at all what you're claiming it supports, perhaps an honest mistake.
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 15:15:14 GMT -6
Post by ken on May 28, 2014 15:15:14 GMT -6
A few things not understood is the Islamic concept of Marriage and Pakistan custom. Marriage is quite a bit different to a Muslim than what it is to a non-Muslim. It is basically a business contract. While it is only permissible for married people to have sexual relations, it is forbidden to do so if either party is below the age of puberty, even if they are married. Yes, things are in flux in Pakistan. My point was simply that, if I know Fltiz, he would not be in agreement with such a system but because of moral relativism, what can they say?
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Clergy
May 28, 2014 15:16:59 GMT -6
Post by ken on May 28, 2014 15:16:59 GMT -6
Nice work, Ken. How about reproducing the entire paragraph which puts a rather different slant on how serious a crime non-reporting is than you imply is the case? To wit--(emphasis added on the portion tidily omitted) " While in the majority of states failure to report isn't illegal, a small minority of states have enacted laws punishing individuals who fail to report certain types of crimes to the authorities. Under Texas law, for example, you can be charged with a Class A misdemeanor for failing to report an offense that resulted in serious bodily injury or death. In Ohio, on the other hand, it's illegal to knowingly fail to report a felony. - See more at: criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/failure-to-report-a-crime.html#sthash.7me71DFP.rmWVoRor.dpufWhether or not sex with a minor is a felonious assault can vary dramatically from state to state and depends upon varying factors, not simply that one is a minor and the other an adult. You would make a great lawyer since you bypassed the very essence of what was said. Not surprised, however. No matter what PP does, the three continue to support it. If that continues to be the case, then one shouldn't point the finger at RCC
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