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Post by ken on May 11, 2014 4:58:10 GMT -6
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Post by Flitzerbiest on May 11, 2014 5:37:07 GMT -6
Or maybe being in medicine is just stressful in general. A doc without some degree of work stress and "take-it-home-with-you-itis" is probably a dermatologist.
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Post by showmedot on May 11, 2014 16:08:13 GMT -6
Any profession where a person has great responsibility and makes decisions that can profoundly affect the lives of others is likely to involve incredible stress.
Besides, abortion clinic workers and doctors have the added pressure of fearing that they may be injured or killed by some fanatic who thinks eliminating them is what God wants done, them or their families.
Like so many life situations, there is no easy solution for this one.
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Post by ken on May 11, 2014 16:46:40 GMT -6
Any profession where a person has great responsibility and makes decisions that can profoundly affect the lives of others is likely to involve incredible stress. Besides, abortion clinic workers and doctors have the added pressure of fearing that they may be injured or killed by some fanatic who thinks eliminating them is what God wants done, them or their families. Like so many life situations, there is no easy solution for this one. Sure there is stress when it affects the lives of others, but there is great satisfaction when one removes the tumor and the person is free. There isn't a negative "uncharacteristic feelings and behaviour, including withdrawal from colleagues, resistance to going to work, lack of energy, impatience with clients, and an overall sense of uneasiness. Nightmares, images that could not be shaken, and preoccupation were commonly reported." I think that it is a correct analogy with the PTSD that soldiers go through. Seeing limbs torn apart and parts of bodies pulled out by suction is the same thing as seeing it on the battlefield. Those involve in 3rd trimester abortion have got to have a psychological effect. If you see a 6 lb baby after a saline abortion, it is just as real as the battlefield after an explosion. Even pastors can be injured or killed by some fanatic and deranged person is real, but there is still great satisfaction with the office of pastoring. Although there is great stress for there doctors, ultimately it is also accompanied with great satisfaction when success is accomplished. If the studies are correct, I think that there is a great possibility of psychological problems in the lives of those involved in the abortion industry.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on May 11, 2014 16:59:05 GMT -6
I can't say for sure about PTSD in physicians who do abortions, not having read anything about it until now, but the PASS (post-abortion stress syndrome) is fragrant BS that has been thoroughly debunked, but never the less gets recycled as gospel truth on the same sorts of websites that you quoted above. The fact that they speak about PASS as a fact makes me tend to doubt the physician PTSD bit.
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Post by ken on May 11, 2014 18:14:01 GMT -6
I can't say for sure about PTSD in physicians who do abortions, not having read anything about it until now, OK... I erased the rest because I didn't want to derail the thread.
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Post by ken on May 12, 2014 8:09:19 GMT -6
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Post by stevec on May 12, 2014 9:41:08 GMT -6
Ken, The problem with lying is that once you do it to promote a cause, it takes away from your credibility for the rest of your activist career. Dr Nathanson converted to Catholicism, how do I know that he isn't lying again to promote the Catholic agenda? Your arguments are only as good as their weakest links, I put no faith in Dr. Nathanson's words.
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Post by ken on May 12, 2014 10:13:35 GMT -6
Ken, The problem with lying is that once you do it to promote a cause, it takes away from your credibility for the rest of your activist career. Dr Nathanson converted to Catholicism, how do I know that he isn't lying again to promote the Catholic agenda? Your arguments are only as good as their weakest links, I put no faith in Dr. Nathanson's words. Well, as an author of the whole of the abortion industry, he is much more credible that you or I. Becoming a person of faith doesn't cause them to become liars.
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Post by stevec on May 12, 2014 10:44:27 GMT -6
Ken, The problem with lying is that once you do it to promote a cause, it takes away from your credibility for the rest of your activist career. Dr Nathanson converted to Catholicism, how do I know that he isn't lying again to promote the Catholic agenda? Your arguments are only as good as their weakest links, I put no faith in Dr. Nathanson's words. Well, as an author of the whole of the abortion industry, he is much more credible that you or I. Becoming a person of faith doesn't cause them to become liars. No, as an author of lies for the abortion industry, he has less credibility than you and me. Dr. Nathanson is simply a liar searching for a cause. In matters as important as these, he can't run from his past. And contrary to your claims, I have found that faith, expecially the evangelical type, to be the foundation for even greater lies.
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Post by ken on May 12, 2014 11:01:44 GMT -6
Well, as an author of the whole of the abortion industry, he is much more credible that you or I. Becoming a person of faith doesn't cause them to become liars. No, as an author of lies for the abortion industry, he has less credibility than you and me. Dr. Nathanson is simply a liar searching for a cause. In matters as important as these, he can't run from his past. And contrary to your claims, I have found that faith, expecially the evangelical type, to be the foundation for even greater lies. Looking at the cross-section of people in our evangelical church, I find that those who come, came as ones who need change and changed for the better. Perhaps, as did the good Dr. Nathanson, it is the media hype that has created the same lie but in reference to churches in general. Looking at what facts we do have available, (the fact that Roe vs Wade is now known to be based on lies) - I think the good doctor holds the truth card. Regardless, however, the reality of seeing the results of saline abortions, suction abortions, partial birth abortions tend to support the fact that the doctors involved in this industry would seem to be candidates for PTSD.
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Post by ken on May 12, 2014 11:11:52 GMT -6
Just think about it, Steve.
Have you ever looked at a picture of a six pound baby after a saline abortion? Don't you think that would be quite traumatic if you were part of it? Don't you think that the whole process is psychologically difficult for doctors?
Can you really compare that to a pastor who finally ran out of juice to helping people and not destroying life?
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Post by stevec on May 12, 2014 11:38:06 GMT -6
No, as an author of lies for the abortion industry, he has less credibility than you and me. Dr. Nathanson is simply a liar searching for a cause. In matters as important as these, he can't run from his past. And contrary to your claims, I have found that faith, expecially the evangelical type, to be the foundation for even greater lies. Looking at the cross-section of people in our evangelical church, I find that those who come, came as ones who need change and changed for the better. Perhaps, as did the good Dr. Nathanson, it is the media hype that has created the same lie but in reference to churches in general. Looking at what facts we do have available, (the fact that Roe vs Wade is now known to be based on lies) - I think the good doctor holds the truth card. Regardless, however, the reality of seeing the results of saline abortions, suction abortions, partial birth abortions tend to support the fact that the doctors involved in this industry would seem to be candidates for PTSD. So you want me to believe that a liar, who admits to lying in the past, now holds all the truth cards? You'll have as much luck in convincing me of that as you would in convincing me to investing my money with Bernie Madoff, or believing a scientist who has been associated with fraud. I'll address your second point in my next post.
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Post by stevec on May 12, 2014 11:53:36 GMT -6
Just think about it, Steve. Have you ever looked at a picture of a six pound baby after a saline abortion? Don't you think that would be quite traumatic if you were part of it? Don't you think that the whole process is psychologically difficult for doctors? Can you really compare that to a pastor who finally ran out of juice to helping people and not destroying life? I have thought about it, and no, I have not seen a 6 lb baby after a saline abortion. No, I could not see myself being associated with the abortion industry for the reasons you mentioned. I have witnessed the good that abortion doctors have provided to their clients. On the other hand, I could not sleep at night if I were in your profession. That thought sickens me also, though I have witnessed the good that some pastors have provided believers. My tablet is almost out of power, so I'll explain in more detail in a later post.
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Post by ken on May 12, 2014 12:10:32 GMT -6
Looking at the cross-section of people in our evangelical church, I find that those who come, came as ones who need change and changed for the better. Perhaps, as did the good Dr. Nathanson, it is the media hype that has created the same lie but in reference to churches in general. Looking at what facts we do have available, (the fact that Roe vs Wade is now known to be based on lies) - I think the good doctor holds the truth card. Regardless, however, the reality of seeing the results of saline abortions, suction abortions, partial birth abortions tend to support the fact that the doctors involved in this industry would seem to be candidates for PTSD. So you want me to believe that a liar, who admits to lying in the past, now holds all the truth cards? You'll have as much luck in convincing me of that as you would in convincing me to investing my money with Bernie Madoff, or believing a scientist who has been associated with fraud. I'll address your second point in my next post. I would say, since there is supportive evidence to what he said, that he holds the truth cards in this case. (Did I really use the word "all"? Or was that your doing!) Certainly by you just saying "I don't trust him" doesn't have much value. What position that he mentioned was not true? What counter position are you proposing that substantiates your position? Do I just "trust" you by your statement that he is a liar? Doesn't that make the whole of the abortion industry a lie since he was one of the authors?
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