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Post by showmedot on Jan 27, 2014 4:02:55 GMT -6
Must be a different Ken here. The one I recall on BCorner assured me he'd have no problem with a Muslim leading students in prayer if other faiths than Christian were represented.
I guess they can SAY a prayer however they do that, but if the kid leading the prayer must wash feet before doing so, s/he'll have to bring a basin to school to do that in.
"Geez, can't you just pray like a normal person?"
See now what letting everybody pray openly in school will involve?
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 6:36:58 GMT -6
It is a free country and I support the exercise thereof. It is a "PUBLIC" school and the "PUBLIC" who paid the taxes should be free to use them for after school clubs. If it is of another faith... well PTL! for those in the armed forces who purchased our freedoms with blood. However, they should bring their own wash basins. So you're okay with satanist after-school clubs, and satantists rallying around the flagpole, and thank Satan for this meal lunchtime prayers. I'm not sure if you know it or not, but satanists are already are praying. But, yes, they have every right to follow their god.
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 7:09:49 GMT -6
Then put a sign... no feet washing in sinks. The reality is that foot washing is for religious purposes--and they made the foot washing for the Muslims (not for the general public). Or are you saying that if another religion has another item (let say stone-hedge religion and spirituality) and they need to have stones to worship and the kept putting rocks that someone may trip over, that we should go ahead and give them a space so that no one trips over a rock? Stone- hedge? God almighty… What's the real issue here Ken. You've been trying to get Christian ritual into the public sphere; now someone else wants in. Why do you give a shit? Could it be that you were never really about religious liberty, but actually just another tired old Christian triumphalist? As alway, Flitz, one must view it in context lest one twist what is being discussed and certainly going back to attacking the poster isn't a good reflection of the moderator of this site. There are so many people who complain about the need for separation of church and state and yet see no problem with spending monies on religious water basins. In context of this post, please quote me where I said I didn't want them praying in the public square? On the contrary, if you have read my response to Steve, I am all for it--just not the spending of public monies if one wants the separation of state and church. I don't see any monies spent on a "prayer room" specifically for Christians. So one must ask oneself, why then did Fltiz go on the attack?
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 7:12:39 GMT -6
Must be a different Ken here. The one I recall on BCorner assured me he'd have no problem with a Muslim leading students in prayer if other faiths than Christian were represented. I guess they can SAY a prayer however they do that, but if the kid leading the prayer must wash feet before doing so, s/he'll have to bring a basin to school to do that in. "Geez, can't you just pray like a normal person?" See now what letting everybody pray openly in school will involve? Are you changing the subject? I still have no problem with a muslim leading a prayer... but is that what we are talking about? Or are you changing the subject?
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 7:41:12 GMT -6
Ken,
We'll have increased custodial costs, increased heat and electrical costs, and increased insurance and security costs as a consequence of all those sects competing for converts. A one time $700 charge per school for footwashes will seem like a drop in the bucket.
I commend you for your open mindedness.
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 7:53:20 GMT -6
Ken, We'll have increased custodial costs, increased heat and electrical costs, and increased insurance and security costs as a consequence of all those sects competing for converts. A one time $700 charge per school for footwashes will seem like a drop in the bucket. I commend you for your open mindedness. It is much more than a $700 charge. It opens the gate for 4,000+ religions to demand equal rights and want our universities to invest in their religious needs too. And thank you for your compliment.
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 9:59:19 GMT -6
Ken, We'll have increased custodial costs, increased heat and electrical costs, and increased insurance and security costs as a consequence of all those sects competing for converts. A one time $700 charge per school for footwashes will seem like a drop in the bucket. I commend you for your open mindedness. It is much more than a $700 charge. It opens the gate for 4,000+ religions to demand equal rights and want our universities to invest in their religious needs too. And thank you for your compliment. I'll take back the compliment for the moment, because I suspect you're not being totally truthful. Why are you focusing specifically on universities, when the discussion concerns K-12 and college?
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 10:23:10 GMT -6
Ken, We'll have increased custodial costs, increase heat and electrical costs, and increased insurance and security costs as a consequence of all those sects competing for converts. A one time $700 charge per school for footwashes will seem like a drop in the bucket. I commend you for your open mindedness. It is much more than a $700 charge. It opens the gate for 4,000+ religions to demand equal rights and want our universities to invest in their religious needs too. And thank you for your compliment. To get back to your point, what is it? Isn't this what you've wanted all these years? I'm disgusted by the trend, but it doesn't affect me financially. My taxes won't be going up that much, since much of our income is not taxed/ taxed at a lower rate, and I've filed my homestead paperwork here in FL. The rest of the world has to deal with this crap while I do nothing more than sit back and comment.
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 10:29:43 GMT -6
And another thing, Ken, post Columbine, you don't see any problems with religious competition in all our public schools K-16?
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 10:46:08 GMT -6
It is much more than a $700 charge. It opens the gate for 4,000+ religions to demand equal rights and want our universities to invest in their religious needs too. And thank you for your compliment. To get back to your point, what is it? Isn't this what you've wanted all these years? I'm disgusted by the trend, but it doesn't affect me financially. My taxes won't be going up that much, since much of our income is not taxed/ taxed at a lower rate, and I've filed my homestead paperwork here in FL. The rest of the world has to deal with this crap while I do nothing more than sit back and comment. The point was plain and simple as I have stated before, to wit: "People complain about separation of church and state and then turn around and fund a religious basin." A little hypocritical IMO. My comment won't change anything as none of our discussion really affect any outcome other than we are more informed... it remains simply a comment.
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 10:46:56 GMT -6
And another thing, Ken, post Columbine, you don't see any problems with religious competition in all our public schools K-16? I'm not sure what "competition" you are referring to. Could you expound a little?
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Post by showmedot on Jan 27, 2014 10:59:50 GMT -6
It opens the gate for 4,000+ religions to demand equal rights and want our universities to invest in their religious needs too. Do think about this issue more, Ken. I honestly don't think you realize that when you insist you're fine with students of any faith being able to pray openly and aloud in school and to lead others in vocal prayer, we will then have to deal with whatever drawbacks result--dirtier restrooms, installing simple footwashing aids, etc. You'd want a student who attends your church to lead other students in prayer the way your church teaches it ought to be done, right? Thus, adjustments would have to be made for how students of other faiths properly prepare to pray. Enough Muslim students holding a school club meeting might need several footwashing stations to have time for all to be properly ready to pray during the meeting. See what I'm saying about the problems that schools would have to deal with? And btw, I think you misunderstand my position. I'm not thrilled that this university has decided footwashing aids became necessary. I think people ought to handle their prayer prep tidily and privately enough that it doesn't cause extra work or discomfort for others. However, we all know that religions can be very specific about just how things must be done, and carrying a footwashing basin to school is hardly practical. When religions demand things that result in a need for extra accommodations, we're all likely to have to deal with the drawbacks as this university discovered.
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 11:06:31 GMT -6
To get back to your point, what is it? Isn't this what you've wanted all these years? I'm disgusted by the trend, but it doesn't affect me financially. My taxes won't be going up that much, since much of our income is not taxed/ taxed at a lower rate, and I've filed my homestead paperwork here in FL. The rest of the world has to deal with this crap while I do nothing more than sit back and comment. The point was plain and simple as I have stated before, to wit: "People complain about separation of church and state and then turn around and fund a religious basin." A little hypocritical IMO. My comment won't change anything as none of our discussion really affect any outcome other than we are more informed... it remains simply a comment. Yes,it's hypocritical, but there's nothing we can do about it, you evangelicals have seen to that. You've wanted freedom to express yourself publically, you've got it, now we have to grant it to every religion.
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Post by ken on Jan 27, 2014 11:09:28 GMT -6
You have lost me completely Dot. The site said they are installing religious foot washing basins. I have said nothing about what you just posted (if I understand you correctly) If there is a Muslim club... they can bring their foot washing basins. Christians have also used foot washing basins... and we bring our own. Not sure I understand. If the boy scouts have a meeting, they bring their own equipment. If the girl scouts have a meeting, they bring their own equipment. If someone rents a room at a public school and need something other than what is already there, they bring their own equipment. All of these things bring no "problems" to the school. So, I have no idea where you are going with this.
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Post by stevec on Jan 27, 2014 11:10:25 GMT -6
And another thing, Ken, post Columbine, you don't see any problems with religious competition in all our public schools K-16? I'm not sure what "competition" you are referring to. Could you expound a little? Recruiting, resources, recognition - you couldn't figure that out?
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