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Post by stevec on Jan 25, 2014 11:49:17 GMT -6
I'm ready to give up on this issue. I understand it's legal for students to pray and distribute religious materials before, between, and after classes, but do we have to pass a law institutionalizing the practice. What happens when 100% of the time Christianity, and no other, is the focus of those activities? It's quite apparent that the end result will violate the Establishment Clause in some manner.
Va. Senate Passes Student Prayer Bill m.christianpost.com/news/va-senate-passes-student-prayer-bill--113312/
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Post by showmedot on Jan 25, 2014 12:50:50 GMT -6
If it passes, I wanna see what happens when some savvy non-believing students, witches, pagans or New Agers want to form a club centering upon their beliefs. Maybe even all of the above.
Can we say "All holy hell will be waiting in the wings"?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 13:13:10 GMT -6
If it passes, I wanna see what happens when some savvy non-believing students, witches, pagans or New Agers want to form a club centering upon their beliefs. Maybe even all of the above. Can we say "All holy hell will be waiting in the wings"? Hi Dot: Lots of colleges have Pagan and Wiccan clubs, CU does for sure. Jim
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Post by stevec on Jan 25, 2014 13:27:41 GMT -6
Jim,
Your average university is a far cry from the cloistered environment of most bible belt towns and cities. Prayer is coming to our public schools, isn't it?
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Post by showmedot on Jan 25, 2014 14:46:07 GMT -6
Jim, Your average university is a far cry from the cloistered environment of most bible belt towns and cities. Prayer is coming to our public schools, isn't it? My point, too. "Public schools" means everything from K-12 and beyond. I can't see too many kindergarteners wanting to conduct skyclad rituals, but these days, who knows?
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Post by stevec on Jan 25, 2014 14:58:37 GMT -6
Jim, Your average university is a far cry from the cloistered environment of most bible belt towns and cities. Prayer is coming to our public schools, isn't it? My point, too. "Public schools" means everything from K-12 and beyond. I can't see too many kindergarteners wanting to conduct skyclad rituals, but these days, who knows? No child K-8 is going to challenge mommy and daddy, so what we're left with is parents using their children to do their dirty deeds. The sad part is that there will be children on both sides of this issue who will be bullied and ostrasized as a consequence of this nonsense.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 25, 2014 15:21:16 GMT -6
This sort of bill is regularly being advanced by evangelical and triumphalist Christians. What they fail to notice, IMO, is that Christian prayer can be fairly easily tucked into any quiet moment inconspicuously. It really doesn't need protection. However, the end result of their laws will ultimately be the protection of more obtrusive and conspicuous form of prayer (e.g. Muslim prayer on mats facing east a various non-negotiable points during the day) to which the proponents of the bill will almost certainly object.
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Post by stevec on Jan 25, 2014 15:50:57 GMT -6
Wait til the Rastafaris claim their space in CO schools.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 16:00:37 GMT -6
Jim, Your average university is a far cry from the cloistered environment of most bible belt towns and cities. Prayer is coming to our public schools, isn't it? Steve, Dot: You make good points, but I really don't think "Official" prayer is coming to our public schools. The Establishment Clause cases are pretty clear that the public schools will not be in the business of promoting prayer. Personally, I am happy with the existing compromise - The schools don't officially sanction prayer and the students can pray or form faith based clubs (of any type) as they see fit. This reflects the gist of the Bill of Rights - human rights that are protected from state infringement. I'm sure that the mayors and councils of the Bible Belt towns you mention would step all over the Establishment clause if they could. I don't deny that. I'm simply noting that in my opinion the Supreme Court has handled this issue well and struck a proper and lasting balance. Jim
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 16:06:56 GMT -6
Wait til the Rastafaris claim their space in CO schools. That's been done! You and I should spend some time on Boulder's Pearl Street Mall some sunny afternoon. It is a genuine dreadlocks holiday! Great people watching. Super micro brews too. On the other hand, the Boulder Mall dreadlocks crowd are known to the locals as "trustafarians" a somewhat snide and maybe undeserved reference to these student/Rastafarian's means of support. J
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2014 16:08:49 GMT -6
This sort of bill is regularly being advanced by evangelical and triumphalist Christians. What they fail to notice, IMO, is that Christian prayer can be fairly easily tucked into any quiet moment inconspicuously. It really doesn't need protection. However, the end result of their laws will ultimately be the protection of more obtrusive and conspicuous form of prayer (e.g. Muslim prayer on mats facing east a various non-negotiable points during the day) to which the proponents of the bill will almost certainly object. I agree 100% It is disappointing and upsetting to me that those who push back against the Establishment Clause forget or never knew what it's purpose is - protecting religious freedom. It is supremely short sighted on their part.
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Post by stevec on Jan 25, 2014 16:27:01 GMT -6
Jim,
What am I supposed to do at the Pearl Street Mall, point and tell everyone that dreads were my second choice. But if there's great beer, I'm in!!
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Post by ken on Jan 26, 2014 15:21:03 GMT -6
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Post by showmedot on Jan 26, 2014 15:52:12 GMT -6
I have no idea how providing footwashing facilities for Muslim students has any connection to this topic. The concern seems to be public restroom cleanliness and safety, both better achieved by installing a simple means of washing feet. What's your point about hypocrisy, Ken?
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Post by stevec on Jan 26, 2014 15:55:16 GMT -6
What's your point, Ken? Thanks to you guys, out of fairness, we'll probably have to install more of these accomodations. Congratulations, you've got your prayers in public schools, now live with the consequences. The hypocrisy is your believing there's hypocrisy.
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