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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 20, 2014 8:31:02 GMT -6
Jesus Ken, you quoted all three of my questions in your post. I'm looking forward to the day when you honestly attempt to answer one of my questions. Since I don't want to be accused of ignoring your red herring, perhaps this might explain neural connections and music. There's a ton of research dealing with music and the human experience, all you have to do is look for it. This Is Your Brain On Vivaldi and Beatles www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130807094348.htm I am not that Jesus. When you are honest enough to admit that I did answer your question with a question and then with a statement... then maybe, and I do mean "MAYBE", we can have an honest dialogue. If you want an honest dialogue, start with the recognition that answering a question with a question is, in most cases, parrying, not an answer per se. There are exceptions, but you do this all the time. Simple, direct answers are generally the best, and those who chronically avoid them are playing rhetorical games. Duck and cover. |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 9:03:48 GMT -6
Ken,
Your problem is that you recognize only one god, one religion. This research provides evidence that all religions have the same biological basis, all are equal from a biological perspective. That works fine from my perspective, I've suspected that for decades. All superstitions originate in the brain, you saw the images in the research, that includes your god/religion and the countless other gods thay have been imagined.
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Post by ken on Jan 20, 2014 9:11:53 GMT -6
OK... lets try it again. As in the variety of music (some people liking certain genres), I suppose we could then say that some will find atheism beautiful. I remember when rap came out and, quite frankly, I didn't like it. However, I had a choice to either continue listening or just say "rap isn't music". The more I listened, the more I developed a liking to it. Likewise, as in atheism, one can just say "I don't like faith" and just leave it at that or continue listening until one develops a liking to it. Another question that would still have to be answered is whether "hard-wired" is just biological or indeed hard-wired by God into the biological to seek Him. Not sure how science would be able to prove that. To say that it originated in our heads or that God hard-wired it, are both statements of faith. More red herrings, Ken. Hard wired is hard wired, science doesn't need to prove god is involved. Once science is able to pinpoint the biological basis for your superstitions there's no need to validate those superstitions, which can be anything from the Gospels to Star Wars. Jediism and Christianity activate the same areas of the brain, to prove either or both fiction/nonfiction would be fruitless. Hardly and a fallacy in deduction. All you proved was that a part of your brain is used. I have always maintained that the spirt and soul and body are one and each one affects the other. Science has proven that the mind can affect the body... however, it cannot bottle the spirit in a test tube experiment. Faith also affects the brain and body (as they have shown) As they say, "if you need an excuse, any excuse will be good enough" (or something along those lines). If this is enough to validate your faith position, that is OK with me. I don't need to argue or try to change your viewpoint. |
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Post by ken on Jan 20, 2014 9:14:22 GMT -6
Ken, Your problem is that you recognize only one god, one religion. This research provides evidence that all religions have the same biological basis, all are equal from a biological perspective. That works fine from my perspective, I've suspected that for decades. All superstitions originate in the brain, you saw the images in the research, that includes your god/religion and the countless other gods thay have been imagined. That is your faith position (which I respect) although I don't agree with it. Indeed all religious efforts or worship will use the same area of the brain. However, that doesn't mean that all religions are of God (such as the new Jedi sect). But I would agree that worship or faith will still use the same part of the brain |
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 20, 2014 10:04:41 GMT -6
Ken, Your problem is that you recognize only one god, one religion. This research provides evidence that all religions have the same biological basis, all are equal from a biological perspective. That works fine from my perspective, I've suspected that for decades. All superstitions originate in the brain, you saw the images in the research, that includes your god/religion and the countless other gods thay have been imagined. That is your faith position (which I respect) although I don't agree with it. Indeed all religious efforts or worship will use the same area of the brain. However, that doesn't mean that all religions are of God (such as the new Jedi sect). Why isn't the Jedi sect "of God"? |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 11:04:08 GMT -6
Ken, Your problem isisthat you recognize only one god, one religion.This research provides evidence that all religions have the same biological basis, all are equal from a biological perspective. That works fine from my perspective, I've suspected that for decades. All superstitions originate in the brain, you saw the images in the research, that includes your god/religion and the countless other gods thay have been imagined. That is your faith position (which I respect) although I don't agree with it. Indeed all religious efforts or worship will use the same area of the brain. However, that doesn't mean that all religions are of God (such as the new Jedi sect). But I would agree that worship or faith will still use the same part of the brain How are "using the same area of the brain" and "of god" not the same? You can't show that your religion is any different from any other when you consider its origin in the brain. There are appropriate answers to my questions, unfortunately you're not equipped from a spiritual perspective to privide them. You would like to pick a winner from among thousands of gods and religions, but that doesn't work according to this research. I could provide answers, but i'm not going to do your work for you, and there's no doubt you wouldn't accept them anyway, but those answers would go a ways towards shutting me up. |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 11:20:08 GMT -6
Mre red herrings, Ken. Hard wired is hard wired, science doesn't need to prove god is involved. Once science is able to pinpoint the biological basis for your superstitions there's no need to validate those superstitions, which can be anything from the Gospels to Star Wars. Jediism and Christianity activate the same areas of the brain, to prove either or both fiction/nonfiction would be fruitless. Hardly and a fallacy in deduction. All you proved was that a part of your brain is used. I have always maintained that the spirt and soul and body are one and each one affects the other. Science has proven that the mind can affect the body... however, it cannot bottle the spirit in a test tube experiment. Faith also affects the brain and body (as they have shown) As they say, "if you need an excuse, any excuse will be good enough" (or something along those lines). If this is enough to validate your faith position, that is OK with me. I don't need to argue or try to change your viewpoint. LOL, I'll agree that the spirit, soul, and body are one. Lots of religions say the same. The perceptions of soul and spirit originate in the brain, which regulates our bodies - it's all connected. Why are you making my case for me? You need to show that your brain activity is supernaturally inspired, so that we can declare your religion the winner. |
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Post by ken on Jan 20, 2014 11:39:16 GMT -6
I mentioned that all religions (because it uses faith) would naturally come from the same location. Do you have a reason why the brain would use a different area? I don't think that this thread has anything to do with whether, as you put it, "I picked a winner". Obviously you didn't pick any and think you are the winner. Certainly you and I aren't the one who will have the final say so. As I mentioned in my post 165 " Either position will be a faith position.". You believe that it originates from that part of the brain... how do you know that a God or any god/gods didn't put it there? It is a faith position. We can agree to disagree but neither of us will be able to substantiate our position other than by faith. |
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Post by ken on Jan 20, 2014 11:41:43 GMT -6
Hardly and a fallacy in deduction. All you proved was that a part of your brain is used. I have always maintained that the spirt and soul and body are one and each one affects the other. Science has proven that the mind can affect the body... however, it cannot bottle the spirit in a test tube experiment. Faith also affects the brain and body (as they have shown) As they say, "if you need an excuse, any excuse will be good enough" (or something along those lines). If this is enough to validate your faith position, that is OK with me. I don't need to argue or try to change your viewpoint. LOL, I'll agree that the spirit, soul, and body are one. Lots of religions say the same. The perceptions of soul and spirit originate in the brain, which regulates our bodies - it's all connected. Why are you making my case for me? You need to show that your brain activity is supernaturally inspired, so that we can declare your religion the winner. I really don't need to show anything since I am not trying to prove anything. You started the post and not I. So, let see what we have here: you stated that science proved that the functions of faith is in a certain part of the brain. You aren't using that area... so are you brain dead in that area? Or is it that you haven't developed it? If anything, understanding that simple concept supports my position more than it does yours. Perhaps a 51/49 percentage. Whether God was involved in the hard-wire or was it just biological remains a faith position. |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 12:38:00 GMT -6
No Ken, you don't have to prove anything, but don't bemoan the rise of secularism and the decline of Christian influence in our society as a consequence. With evidence for religions' biological basis, there's no need to go beyond stating that they're all effective. Jediism = Christianity. We live in the information age, and it's not getting any less so, so the next generation of evangelical proselytizers will eventually have to deal with the sort of questions this research raises, regardless of your input.
The fact that I may have brain dead or underdeveloped portions is irrelevant, the fact is that I survived and have prospered without those portions of my brain functioning the same as spiritual types have. I'd like to believe my brain is wired differently, nothing more, nothing less. Atheism = Christianity
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Post by ken on Jan 20, 2014 13:02:23 GMT -6
Is that what you think I am doing? No, Steve, we already know that is what will happen. IMO, there will be one more strong Christian push and it will be the last one before the end-times start. That is your viewpoint which, as I have stated, you have every right to have. That, of course, is your viewpoint. The grave will determine if you are right and I am wrong or if I am right and you are wrong. |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 13:32:54 GMT -6
Oh boy, the ol' end of times boogieman. I can see the neural pathways lighting up to give you a spiritual boner with that revelation. Well, at least the research I provided will give you some insight to where those superstitions originate, if and when you decide to think about such things.
Screw death, I couldn't care less what death proves, my neural wiring puts me in with the living.
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 16:08:34 GMT -6
Ken said,
"Is that what you think I am doing? No, Steve, we already know that is what will happen. IMO, there will be one more strong Christian push and it will be the last one before the end-times start."
What will one more Christian push look like? Will it look any different than the relentless onslaught we've witnessed over the last 2000 years? Your Campingesque pronouncement has been amusing me all afternoon. Despite all your gloom and doom beliefs, you are chuckle worthy at times, even when it's unintended.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Jan 20, 2014 18:02:04 GMT -6
LOL, I'll agree that the spirit, soul, and body are one. Lots of religions say the same. The perceptions of soul and spirit originate in the brain, which regulates our bodies - it's all connected. Why are you making my case for me? You need to show that your brain activity is supernaturally inspired, so that we can declare your religion the winner. I really don't need to show anything since I am not trying to prove anything. You started the post and not I. So, let see what we have here: you stated that science proved that the functions of faith is in a certain part of the brain. You aren't using that area... so are you brain dead in that area? Or is it that you haven't developed it? Ok, so far, putting aside the "brain dead" jab. I think you can say, quite reasonably, that the human brain would have to be involved in religious experience, god or no god... If anything, understanding that simple concept supports my position more than it does yours. Perhaps a 51/49 percentage. Whether God was involved in the hard-wire or was it just biological remains a faith position. …and there you go overstepping--twice actually. The first is a claim that science supports your faith here. All that the study said is that the brains of the religious and the non-religious activate differently. Both you and Steve are overreaching on this one. You would have been better off letting him sing that mistake solo. The second, of course, is your typical "bald is a hair color" refrain (i.e. that non-belief is a faith position). This simply isn't true. The non-existence of a phenomenon never requires proof. Believing in Santa requires faith; non-belief in Santa does not. I know that you understand this on some level, so I can only assume that by continuing to riff on this meme, you are being intellectually dishonest, or at least a little stupid. |
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Post by stevec on Jan 20, 2014 19:01:35 GMT -6
I don't believe I've overstated my case. The fact that scientists can pinpoint areas of the brain stimulated by religious beliefs, which is different from nonreligious, indicates a biological basis for religious experience. The article mentioned that this uniquely human experience spans all cultures, I simply stated that all religions are equal in this regard. I'm not the one who introduced soul and spirit into the equation, but I did feel the need to respond. None of us operate in vacuum, so I can anticipate the meaning of Ken's religious code words and his claim that Christianity's perception "of god" was perhaps more noble than a Jediist's perception of "the force".
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