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Post by woodrowli on Jul 29, 2014 10:59:36 GMT -6
Mostly just a reminder we all worship the same one. Some of us do, and some don't, and a few of us don't see the need. You are dang near a Theist. You believe in almost as many God(swt)'s as I do, You believe in only one less God(swt) than I do. |
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Post by woodrowli on Jul 29, 2014 11:14:34 GMT -6
To a large extent we live as if God(swt) does not exist. That's a walk in tne park for me. I don't know about that, it seems most everyone attempts to acquire pleasure, comfort, and learning in somewhat equal amounts. Even praying to god serves pleasure and comfort needs, most expecially when both are lacking in one's life. There's nothing especially noble related to learning about/praying to god. It's simply another earthly pleasure. A wise man once said, "Ere you succumb to shocks of mortal pain, The rosy grape-juice from your wine-cup drain. You are not gold, that, hidden in the earth, Your friends should care to dig you up again! " I have no reason to disagree with that. I do find pleasure in praying. I found pleasure in partying and travel before accepting Islam. Pleasure is just a fringe benefit of life, not a purpose. come to think of it I have always found pleasure in life even when I was experiencing the worse of times.  |
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Post by ken on Aug 9, 2014 16:34:10 GMT -6
I consider that when the Apostles went all over the world, it was prophets going to the world I consider that when Enoch (a non-jee) preached to the Gentiles, it was to a dying world I consider that when even Mohammad said to get away from false gods, it was God speaking through him Even when Nebuchadnezzar said " 25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God." it was a revelation given by God.Who knows, God may even use you.
If He can use a donkey, he can use anyone. (no inference that you are a donkey but rather God can use anyone)
As far as the Chinese... it is believe than Thomas went there.
As far as the Mayan, I have no idea but interestingly enough they understood the power of blood covenant--however, over time, it got twisted.
Another person said "Interesting question. We'll never truly know. ... ...Aztecs strongly believed in Quetzalcoatl, a God who had white skin and was to return to save the world."
So apparently someone went over there.Okay, now I believe you, but you have to admit that if god uses other religions and non-christians to spread his message, then all religions are equal in his eyes. Why would god validate other religions and non-christian authority figures with his messages, if that weren't true. If you notice that even Christianity has a sect that violates the very principles and foundations given by Jesus Christ. The message isn't the problem but those who twist the message until you no longer recognize the message. To hold placards of hate while sharing the love of Jesus is a dichotomy of terms. God will always validate truth no matter who shares it. |
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Post by ken on Aug 9, 2014 16:40:03 GMT -6
I have no reason to disagree with that. I do find pleasure in praying. I found pleasure in partying and travel before accepting Islam. Pleasure is just a fringe benefit of life, not a purpose. come to think of it I have always found pleasure in life even when I was experiencing the worse of times. You are MAD! Yet so much truth it what you have said. |
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Post by stevec on Aug 9, 2014 19:18:40 GMT -6
Okay, now I believe you, but you have to admit that if god uses other religions and non-christians to spread his message, then all religions are equal in his eyes. Why would god validate other religions and non-christian authority figures with his messages, if that weren't true. If you notice that even Christianity has a sect that violates the very principles and foundations given by Jesus Christ. The message isn't the problem but those who twist the message until you no longer recognize the message. To hold placards of hate while sharing the love of Jesus is a dichotomy of terms. God will always validate truth no matter who shares it. If god validates other religions with his message and truth, should I assume any good road leads to heaven? Heaven must include very diverse religious beliefs, if you truly believe god validates truth regardless of who shares it. Why do we need Jesus? What's the difference between a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, Buddhist, or atheist on the road to heaven? |
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Post by stevec on Aug 9, 2014 19:38:02 GMT -6
Ken,
Do you find pleasure in praying?
Do you find pleasure in helping people?
When are these pleasures not about you when clearly you enjoy doing them? Regardless of your and woodrowli's claims, life is all about pleasure.
Would you hurt if you stopped praying and stopped helping people?
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Post by ken on Aug 9, 2014 19:49:35 GMT -6
Ken, - Do you find pleasure in praying?
- Do you find pleasure in helping people?
- When are these pleasures not about you when clearly you enjoy doing them? Regardless of your and woodrowli's claims, life is all about pleasure.
- Would you hurt if you stopped praying and stopped helping people?
1. Not necessarily but most of the time I do 2. Not necessarily but most of the time I do 3. When I have to get up at 3 in the morning. There could be other instances where you do things, not out of pleasure, but out of responsibility, love and commitment. Like when Jesus went to the cross. 4. Yes. It would be painful to myself and those who now are not on the receiving end. |
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Post by stevec on Aug 9, 2014 20:26:43 GMT -6
Really Ken,
When do you not enjoy praying?
When do you not enjoy helping people?
Please keep #3 in mind when considering your answers, since you make both seem more like a job than anything else. We all work out of responsibility, love, and commitment to others. Hopefully we retire into a lifestyle that we find pleasurable. Don't you have a big picture in mind, like heaven? You get up at 3am, you bust your butt for god and other human beings, why??? Are you trying to say you're not focusing your life on that ultimate pleasure, heaven?
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Post by ken on Aug 10, 2014 4:01:19 GMT -6
Really Ken, When do you not enjoy praying? When do you not enjoy helping people? Please keep #3 in mind when considering your answers, since you make both seem more like a job than anything else. We all work out of responsibility, love, and commitment to others. Hopefully we retire into a lifestyle that we find pleasurable. Don't you have a big picture in mind, like heaven? You get up at 3am, you bust your butt for god and other human beings, why??? Are you trying to say you're not focusing your life on that ultimate pleasure, heaven? It's all relative on how one looks at it as you have noted. You are right. When I have to get up at three, I get up because I am focused on the ultimate pleasure of being united with God and hearing the "well done" by our Father. When Jesus went through the torture for you and me, it wasn't pleasurable but the torture was temporal. Three times he hoped there would be a different way. But as you said, the pleasure came after when multitudes were ushered into heaven. As was noted by the scriptures you selected, it was the temporal pleasure of the rich man that became his stumbling block. Tradition says it was Barnabas who had a heart change latter on in life. |
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Post by stevec on Aug 10, 2014 7:48:42 GMT -6
Like I said, Ken, it's all about earthly pleasure, even when you make claims to the contrary. Dreaming of heaven is an earthly pleasure. There's nothing wrong with that, btw, like I always say - whatever get you through this life..............
Stop believing in god, stop praying, and end your dreams of making it to heaven, that's when your sacrifices will appear to be selfless acts. Right now you're simply building a resume.
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