Vey iz mir

[Flitzerbiest]

www.wset.com/story/25061872/little-girl-taken-out-of-christian-school-after-told-shes-too-much-like-a-boy

[ken]

They are dead wrong.

[Flitzerbiest]

Mar 26, 2014 18:07:55 GMT -6 ken said:

They are dead wrong.

Absolutely. Figure wait until someone is 21 before you start making their life hell for being gender variant, right?

[stevec]

Mar 26, 2014 19:06:10 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

Mar 26, 2014 18:07:55 GMT -6 ken said:

They are dead wrong.

Absolutely. Figure wait until someone is 21 before you start making their life hell for being gender variant, right?

No, I believe open season begins when she turns 14.

[Flitzerbiest]

Mar 26, 2014 19:29:35 GMT -6 stevec said:

Mar 26, 2014 19:06:10 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

Absolutely. Figure wait until someone is 21 before you start making their life hell for being gender variant, right?

No, I believe open season begins when she turns 14.

Maybe it's more like a fixed grace period from the time one starts gender bending. A honeymoon of sorts. I'd propose about 18 months based on personal experience. After that, it's time to lower the boom.

[Flitzerbiest]

The story is going viral:

www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/03/27/Tomboy-pulled-out-of-Christan-school-after-mother-told-she-needed-to-be-more-feminine/2261395926639/

"Top News" on UPI this morning.

[woodrowli]

The ghost of Fred Phelps is hard at work.Sadly his legacy is alive and well. That school is no better than the WBC. The parents should be glad she is out of there.

There is no problem with people having different views on sexual orientation and what constitutes morality. But something is wrong if those views are harming puppies, kittens, little girls or even adult people.

Fundamental religion imposed upon others is Fundamentally wrong.

[Flitzerbiest]

There is no compulsion in religion, n'est pas?

[woodrowli]

Mar 28, 2014 9:41:24 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

There is no compulsion in religion, n'est pas?

Oui, C'est vrai.

However in reality very many people try to deny others the right to self responsibility.

Too many people forget we each are responsible for our beliefs and non-beliefs. We each have the responsibility to not be blind followers and to believe based upon our own free will choices made with knowledge and understanding.

It is not my desire for others to believe as I do, but it is my desire they make free will choices based upon their own findings and verification of what they find.

[ken]

Mar 26, 2014 19:06:10 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

Mar 26, 2014 18:07:55 GMT -6 ken said:

They are dead wrong.

Absolutely. Figure wait until someone is 21 before you start making their life hell for being gender variant, right?

Why make their life hell?  And are you projecting on the lovely girl?

[ken]

Mar 28, 2014 10:56:52 GMT -6 woodrowli said:

Mar 28, 2014 9:41:24 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

There is no compulsion in religion, n'est pas?

Oui, C'est vrai.

However in reality very many people try to deny others the right to self responsibility.

Too many people forget we each are responsible for our beliefs and non-beliefs. We each have the responsibility to not be blind followers and to believe based upon our own free will choices made with knowledge and understanding.

It is not my desire for others to believe as I do, but it is my desire they make free will choices based upon their own findings and verification of what they find.

Oui, mon ami.

[Flitzerbiest]

Ken,

The fact that Woodrow does not proselytize lends some credibility to his statement that he does not desire for others to believe as he does that your agreement frankly lacks.

FB

[Flitzerbiest]

Latest interesting headline on the gay-dar:

www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/03/28/Mozilla-employees-demand-newly-appointed-CEO-resign-over-anti-gay-marriage-views/3841396040545/

I'll take the conservative line on this one. You can't fire someone for being opposed to gay marriage. Unless his views have somehow caused harm to the company, it is none of the company's damned business what he thinks.

[Flitzerbiest]

Mar 28, 2014 10:56:52 GMT -6 woodrowli said:

Mar 28, 2014 9:41:24 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

There is no compulsion in religion, n'est pas?

Oui, C'est vrai.

However in reality very many people try to deny others the right to self responsibility.

Too many people forget we each are responsible for our beliefs and non-beliefs. We each have the responsibility to not be blind followers and to believe based upon our own free will choices made with knowledge and understanding.

It is not my desire for others to believe as I do, but it is my desire they make free will choices based upon their own findings and verification of what they find.

Given that my quote above is a paraphrase of my favorite sentiment attributable to Muhammad, I wonder if you would be able to give me a more reliable translation of it?

[woodrowli]

Mar 28, 2014 21:06:53 GMT -6 Flitzerbiest said:

Mar 28, 2014 10:56:52 GMT -6 woodrowli said:

Oui, C'est vrai.

However in reality very many people try to deny others the right to self responsibility.

Too many people forget we each are responsible for our beliefs and non-beliefs. We each have the responsibility to not be blind followers and to believe based upon our own free will choices made with knowledge and understanding.

It is not my desire for others to believe as I do, but it is my desire they make free will choices based upon their own findings and verification of what they find.

Given that my quote above is a paraphrase of my favorite sentiment attributable to Muhammad, I wonder if you would be able to give me a more reliable translation of it?

It is from Surah 2 (al-Baqarah) Ayyat 256

The full ayyat reads:

256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

Essentially it means we are not to force anyone to believe anything. 
Truth is distinct and those who find it will recognize it. What one believes should be of their own choice.  One can not be made to believe that which they have no reason to believe.



One difficulty in using a translation is in Arabic there are no line divisions. complete thoughts are given. When written in Arabic many of what are translated into lines are actually single words in Arabic

Ayyats 252-260 are the full thought and need to be understood together.

252. These are the Verses of Allah, We recite them to you (O Muhammad ) in truth, and surely, you are one of the Messengers (of Allah).

253. Those Messengers! We preferred some to others; to some of them Allah spoke (directly); others He raised to degrees (of honour); and to 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), We gave clear proofs and evidences, and supported him with Ruh-ul-Qudus [Jibrael (Gabriel)]. If Allah had willed, succeeding generations would not have fought against each other, after clear Verses of Allah had come to them, but they differed - some of them believed and others disbelieved. If Allah had willed, they would not have fought against one another, but Allah does what He likes.

254. O you who believe! Spend of that with which We have provided for you, before a Day comes when there will be no bargaining, nor friendship, nor intercession. And it is the disbelievers who are the Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.).

255. Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursi.]

256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

257. Allah is the Wali (Protector or Guardian) of those who believe. He brings them out from darkness into light. But as for those who disbelieve, their Auliya (supporters and helpers) are Taghut [false deities and false leaders, etc.], they bring them out from light into darkness. Those are the dwellers of the Fire, and they will abide therein forever.

258. Have you not looked at him who disputed with Ibrahim (Abraham) about his Lord (Allah), because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim (Abraham) said (to him): "My Lord (Allah) is He Who gives life and causes death." He said, "I give life and cause death." Ibrahim (Abraham) said, "Verily! Allah causes the sun to rise from the east; then cause it you to rise from the west." So the disbeliever was utterly defeated. And Allah guides not the people, who are Zalimun (wrong-doers, etc.).

259. Or like the one who passed by a town and it had tumbled over its roofs. He said: "Oh! How will Allah ever bring it to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years, then raised him up (again). He said: "How long did you remain (dead)?" He (the man) said: "(Perhaps) I remained (dead) a day or part of a day". He said: "Nay, you have remained (dead) for a hundred years, look at your food and your drink, they show no change; and look at your donkey! And thus We have made of you a sign for the people. Look at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh". When this was clearly shown to him, he said, "I know (now) that Allah is Able to do all things."

260. And (remember) when Ibrahim (Abraham) said, "My Lord! Show me how You give life to the dead." He (Allah) said: "Do you not believe?" He [Ibrahim (Abraham)] said: "Yes (I believe), but to be stronger in Faith." He said: "Take four birds, then cause them to incline towards you (then slaughter them, cut them into pieces), and then put a portion of them on every hill, and call them, they will come to you in haste. And know that Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise."

(It is a lot shorter when written in Arabic, as many of what gets translated into sentences are single words in Arabic)

In other words if Allaah(swt) had desired blind followers he would have created all people without free will and no option except to believe.  But we are to be seekers and not believe except what we our self have found reason to believe. If we search we will find truth. If we search and do so with sincerity and do not find the truth, we will not be held accountable for that which we had no control over.