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Post by ken on Mar 16, 2014 11:39:41 GMT -6
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Post by stevec on Mar 16, 2014 14:51:57 GMT -6
I hope Wheeler figures out the meaning of existence before his time runs out.
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Post by ken on Mar 16, 2014 17:30:29 GMT -6
Of course, in my line of thinking I find some interesting statements the first being:
Obviously, there are those who don't agree with him and support a weak anthropic viewpoint.
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Post by ken on Mar 16, 2014 17:41:11 GMT -6
This is the mind bender:
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Post by stevec on Mar 16, 2014 19:37:59 GMT -6
Ken,
Wheeler is pretty much stating the obvious - we are here observing the universe, so therefore the universe is fine tuned for life. And if the universe weren't fine tuned for life, we wouldn't be here observing it, DUH!
As far as his take on the old two slit experiment is concerned, all he has to do is publish his research on his feedback loop idea. We're talking about philosophy, not real science as of yet, so no conclusions can be made. It's been known for a long time that our observations affect matter on the quantum level, but I'm hardly qualified to comment on such things.
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Post by showmedot on Mar 17, 2014 0:22:47 GMT -6
No surprise to me, having read channeler Jane Roberts's Seth books. What I bolded above is pretty much identical to ideas conveyed supposedly by Seth, the entity channeled by Roberts. Some New Agers go a bit further and insist we literally create our reality in its entirety by every thought we entertain, every decision we make. Indeed, the very fact of each individual presence on the planet affects the overall nature of reality. Seth specified that "past" lives really aren't past except from a person's point of perception within this reality. We all of us exist simultaneously as entirely other people/beings in what we'd call the past and the future, time being like a Mobius strip with aspects of each person also living in what would be our past, others in our future. So, when someone has a deja vu moment, that's simply a bit of awareness of something that happened to the aspect of yourself living in what is the future to you. Your focus in this reality makes this momentary awareness seem like it's already happened to you, too. Ordinarily, we focus upon our own time and personal reality because opening up to these other "selves" and being able to perceive what they're experiencing is a crazymaker. The so-called senile elderly lose much of their focus in this reality and drift back and forth among what we'd call past, present and future as well as being more aware of their other selves. That drift produces the lack of clear focus within our reality we call dementia. According to this bullshit, those who do so are unusually fearful of dying and thus gradually "lose their grip on reality" to prepare them to lose their current focus altogether and be "reborn" with a different focus in another time and maybe even a quite different mode of existence. Roberts produced a trilogy of novels illustrating all this with one character an old woman realizing that she also exists as a time-traveling alien as well as a man living in the 18th century, I think it was. |
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Post by ken on Mar 17, 2014 6:40:53 GMT -6
Ken, Wheeler is pretty much stating the obvious - we are here observing the universe, so therefore the universe is fine tuned for life. And if the universe weren't fine tuned for life, we wouldn't be here observing it, DUH! As far as his take on the old two slit experiment is concerned, all he has to do is publish his research on his feedback loop idea. We're talking about philosophy, not real science as of yet, so no conclusions can be made. It's been known for a long time that our observations affect matter on the quantum level, but I'm hardly qualified to comment on such things. Steve, did you look at the photons when it acted like particles and then like wave-length pattern? |
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Post by ken on Mar 17, 2014 6:42:25 GMT -6
No surprise to me, having read channeler Jane Roberts's Seth books. What I bolded above is pretty much identical to ideas conveyed supposedly by Seth, the entity channeled by Roberts. Some New Agers go a bit further and insist we literally create our reality in its entirety by every thought we entertain, every decision we make. Indeed, the very fact of each individual presence on the planet affects the overall nature of reality. Seth specified that "past" lives really aren't past except from a person's point of perception within this reality. We all of us exist simultaneously as entirely other people/beings in what we'd call the past and the future, time being like a Mobius strip with aspects of each person also living in what would be our past, others in our future. So, when someone has a deja vu moment, that's simply a bit of awareness of something that happened to the aspect of yourself living in what is the future to you. Your focus in this reality makes this momentary awareness seem like it's already happened to you, too. Ordinarily, we focus upon our own time and personal reality because opening up to these other "selves" and being able to perceive what they're experiencing is a crazymaker. The so-called senile elderly lose much of their focus in this reality and drift back and forth among what we'd call past, present and future as well as being more aware of their other selves. That drift produces the lack of clear focus within our reality we call dementia. According to this bullshit, those who do so are unusually fearful of dying and thus gradually "lose their grip on reality" to prepare them to lose their current focus altogether and be "reborn" with a different focus in another time and maybe even a quite different mode of existence. Roberts produced a trilogy of novels illustrating all this with one character an old woman realizing that she also exists as a time-traveling alien as well as a man living in the 18th century, I think it was. Interesting... However right or wrong he may be... I find that it outlines the reality that we can make one discovery that changes everything we have established as facts before. |
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Post by stevec on Mar 17, 2014 7:38:06 GMT -6
Ken, Wheeler is pretty much stating the obvious - we are here observing the universe, so therefore the universe is fine tuned for life. And if the universe weren't fine tuned for life, we wouldn't be here observing it, DUH! As far as his take on the old two slit experiment is concerned, all he has to do is publish his research on his feedback loop idea. We're talking about philosophy, not real science as of yet, so no conclusions can be made. It's been known for a long time that our observations affect matter on the quantum level, but I'm hardly qualified to comment on such things. Steve, did you look at the photons when it acted like particles and then like wave-length pattern? I'm not sure I understand your question. If you're asking me if I read the results of the two slit experiment, the answer is - yes. Did you? If you're going to claim that Wheeler's feedback loop idea is/was part of the experiment, you'd be sadly mistaken. Not only that, his quasar experiment has not gotten beyond the piece of scrap paper described in the article. If you're adking me if I'm concious of light particles dual nature as I'm writing this post, the answer is - no. |
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Post by stevec on Mar 17, 2014 8:09:44 GMT -6
No surprIse to me, having read channeler Jane Roberts's Seth books. What I bolded above is pretty much identical to ideas conveyed supposedly by Seth, the entity channeled by Roberts. Some New Agers go a bit further and insist we literally create our reality in its entirety by every thought we entertain, every decision we make. Indeed, the very fact of each individual presence on the planet affects the overall nature of reality. Seth specified that "past" lives really aren't past except from a person's point of perception within this reality. We all of us exist simultaneously as entirely other people/beings in what we'd call the past and the future, time being like a Mobius strip with aspects of each person also living in what would be our past, others in our future. So, when someone has a deja vu moment, that's simply a bit of awareness of something that happened to the aspect of yourself living in what is the future to you. Your focus in this reality makes this momentary awareness seem like it's already happened to you, too. Ordinarily, we focus upon our own time and personal reality because opening up to these other "selves" and being able to perceive what they're experiencing is a crazymaker. The so-called senile elderly lose much of their focus in this reality and drift back and forth among what we'd call past, present and future as well as being more aware of their other selves. That drift produces the lack of clear focus within our reality we call dementia. According to this bullshit, those who do so are unusually fearful of dying and thus gradually "lose their grip on reality" to prepare them to lose their current focus altogether and be "reborn" with a different focus in another time and maybe even a quite different mode of existence. Roberts produced a trilogy of novels illustrating all this with one character an old woman realizing that she also exists as a time-traveling alien as well as a man living in the 18th century, I think it was. Interesting... However right or wrong he may be... I find that it outlines the reality that we can make one discovery that changes everything we have established as facts before. What are you talking about? What facts and discoveries, "however right or wrong", are we discussing here? When you figure that out, explain to me how they are impacting reality. |
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Post by ken on Mar 17, 2014 9:16:55 GMT -6
Steve, did you look at the photons when it acted like particles and then like wave-length pattern? Did you? If you're going to claim that Wheeler's feedback loop idea is/was part of the experiment, you'd be sadly mistaken. Not only that, his quasar experiment has not gotten beyond the piece of scrap paper described in the article. Not everything posted is given to produce a combative point, Steve. And, yes, I have read it. |
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Post by ken on Mar 17, 2014 9:27:13 GMT -6
Interesting... However right or wrong he may be... I find that it outlines the reality that we can make one discovery that changes everything we have established as facts before. What are you talking about? What facts and discoveries, "however right or wrong", are we discussing here? When you figure that out, explain to me how they are impacting reality. Just that there are theories that can change everything. At one point they measure light in a straight line... now we know that light is bendable. How did that affect what we knew? What changed when we understood that regular physics isn't the norm and the quantum physics became a reality? Do you think we will never discover anything that will challenge the conclusions that we have now? |
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Post by showmedot on Mar 17, 2014 10:33:29 GMT -6
However right or wrong he may be... I find that it outlines the reality that we can make one discovery that changes everything we have established as facts before. Ooookay, and what in this article bears any resemblance to a "discovery that changes everything"? I must have overlooked something. |
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Post by stevec on Mar 17, 2014 10:44:43 GMT -6
Did you? If you're going to claim that Wheeler's feedback loop idea is/was part of the experiment, you'd be sadly mistaken. Not only that, his quasar experiment has not gotten beyond the piece of scrap paper described in the article. Not everything posted is given to produce a combative point, Steve. And, yes, I have read it. What conclusions have you arrived at relative to the double slit experiment, and Wheeler's untested feedback loop/quasar/conciousness musings? |
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Post by showmedot on Mar 17, 2014 10:53:38 GMT -6
The interesting thing about Wheeler's ideas is that if he's on to something, then Shirley MacLaine and numerous other New Age thinkers are right: We are God. At the very least, we're co-creators with whatever it is we call "God."
Which would tidily render accusations of "playing God" so much bullshit.
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