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Post by Flitzerbiest on Nov 14, 2013 15:24:15 GMT -6
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Post by stevec on Nov 14, 2013 15:30:51 GMT -6
Both my son and I have disgraphia. It used to piss me off when teachers tried to force their penmanship wills on my son.
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Post by showmedot on Nov 15, 2013 5:13:35 GMT -6
I'm turning 64 on Monday, and I sure as hell support it. There's something to be said for keeping beautiful and graceful things in our lives. We regularly get thank you notes for gifts from a niece and nephew, ages 10 and 9 respectively. Their mother does believe in teaching them good manners, but it's telling that she still addresses the envelopes. I learned how to do that at age eight. I can understand why she would: The kids' printing looks as haphazard as that of a child just learning--uneven staggering lines and drunken-looking letters. I cringe when I consider that's how they'll sign legal documents one of these years all too soon. It's embarrassing to see how ignorant the handwriting of two pretty sharp kids looks. So, chalk me up as the cursive equivalent of those who say that making kids calculator dependent to the point that they can't do simple calculations mentally wasn't such a great idea. |
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Post by stevec on Nov 15, 2013 11:11:39 GMT -6
Dot,
If it's any consolation, my son can translate Mayan numbers, base 20 and consisting of dots and lines, into our numerical system in split seconds. He could also do calculations in his head that amazed his teachers. All the penmanship classes in the world won't help his handwriting though. It remains at the 2nd grade level, which is terrible. He simply lacks the fine hand motor skills.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Nov 15, 2013 11:36:49 GMT -6
I'm turning 64 on Monday, and I sure as hell support it. There's something to be said for keeping beautiful and graceful things in our lives. We regularly get thank you notes for gifts from a niece and nephew, ages 10 and 9 respectively. Their mother does believe in teaching them good manners, but it's telling that she still addresses the envelopes. I learned how to do that at age eight. I can understand why she would: The kids' printing looks as haphazard as that of a child just learning--uneven staggering lines and drunken-looking letters. I cringe when I consider that's how they'll sign legal documents one of these years all too soon. It's embarrassing to see how ignorant the handwriting of two pretty sharp kids looks. So, chalk me up as the cursive equivalent of those who say that making kids calculator dependent to the point that they can't do simple calculations mentally wasn't such a great idea. Aw…you didn't vote in my nifty poll. I'm crushed. I understand the impulse to teach children to write legibly. I just argue that we don't need to teach them two separate ways to do this. Many people simply do not have the fine motor skills for pretty print. This was obvious to me by the second grade--I could write somewhat better with practice, but I would never be able to write like little Robbie, who sat next to me happily producing "A level" script from day one. He went on into the arts and flourished. |
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Post by showmedot on Nov 15, 2013 17:02:51 GMT -6
No, I didn't vote, because my vote would have been for "None of the above."
Where did you get the idea that most people can't write legibly? I've seen a damn sight more examples of people's cursive writing in nearly 20 years of teaching than you two put together, I bet, and it's absolutely not true that the vast majority of people cannot write cursive legibly. That majority can IF THEY BOTHER TO DO SO and give a damn.
Granted, there will be a few kids who truly cannot due to disability, but if they constitute more than 5% of the students in an entire school, I'd be quite surprised.
I made accommodations for the few students who, I was told, truly could not produce legible handwriting. If any student preferred to print rather than use cursive, fine, as long as it was legible enough to be quickly read.
So you guys really think it doesn't matter that a future Supreme Court justice or Treasury Secretary (whose signature goes on new bills) will only be able to print said signature unevenly? Appearances are really that insignificant?
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Nov 15, 2013 23:15:02 GMT -6
So you guys really think it doesn't matter that a future Supreme Court justice or Treasury Secretary (whose signature goes on new bills) will only be able to print said signature unevenly? Questions like that only get seem to elicit one response from the depths of my psyche: "My God, is THAT what you're worried about?" The world won't stop if we don't have cursive signatures any more than it did when we stopped wearing signet rings. |
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Post by showmedot on Nov 16, 2013 4:59:27 GMT -6
Who suggested it's of earthshattering importance?
Fine. You think it trivial; I think handwriting/printing that gives the impression a person is a moron IS important.
Hmmmm...which profession is notorious for having illegible writing? Wouldn't be MD's by any chance?
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Nov 16, 2013 19:51:27 GMT -6
Who suggested it's of earthshattering importance? Fine. You think it trivial; I think handwriting/printing that gives the impression a person is a moron IS important. Hmmmm...which profession is notorious for having illegible writing? Wouldn't be MD's by any chance? Funny. My Dad (MD) has meticulous handwriting. Mine is functional, but not pretty. I gave up cursive years ago because I found I could print just a fast and my teachers could read it better. The physician stereotype probably owes at least in part to the fact that they want to be writing in an identifiable but irreproducible fashion, at least regarding prescriptions. That this is unsafe seems obvious to all now, and is part of the impetus behind EHR's and direct-to-pharmacy ordering. The history of medicine is full of all sorts of screwy shit. As for me, I could really not care less if someone thinks that my script is moronic. I work in the ER and I've been called far worse. Most don't persist in the opinion when they get to know me. |
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Post by woodrowli on Feb 7, 2014 12:36:07 GMT -6
Guess who is over 70  Actually while it is no longer needed, it is a great exercise in learning planning and neatness. We began learning cursive in the Third grade, in ink with dip pens. Quite a challenge and quite a mess, but we did learn by the time we reached 5th grade. While it did not seem to be practical, even then. We did learn how to concentrate and preplan. that was the value we gained. Also was an early appreciation for the fine arts. |
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