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Post by ken on Mar 12, 2014 20:18:51 GMT -6
Thanks Dot... because if it was a simple as this, he sure gave me a rabbit trail. First, if you look carefully as to what I said... I never said (and I know you are paraphrasing) "you've claimed that the Bible is so impressive a statement of God's guidance and so effective as an aid to better living that all it takes is sincerely studying it to convince someone it's true." but rather simply "You should study yourself to come to your own conclusion instead of never studying it for over 40 years and simply going by what other people say on forums". I believe there is a big difference between the two statements. If you want to rank, I wouldn't list all of the religions of the world but it would rather be in there categories: 1) No God 2) Any religion will do because they all lead to the same place. 3) The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My experience has been and what I have observed is that if the heart is open God does reveal Himself and if someone doesn't want Him involved, He will follow ones desire. |
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Post by ken on Mar 12, 2014 20:21:26 GMT -6
Could be... or maybe not... If this is true... then it become a little more interesting than just being bored. I haven't really checked it out but it sure sounds interesting: www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/Okay, now you've got me. What possible relevance does any of that have? You said it might be boring to read the begats. I just thought it is interesting that there might be more to the names than just begat. No other relevance... you can throw it in the garbage if you want. |
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Post by stevec on Mar 12, 2014 21:58:36 GMT -6
Ken,
Let me worry about what I'm driving at and trying to accomplish, your job is to answer the questions. I'll give you a heads up though, because I'm not afraid of being honest. I want you to rank outcomes so that we have a mutual understanding of how honest people can arrive at different Bible interpretations after years of serious Bible study. If you manage to insult someone, that would be a bonus.
You believe god is sending a message through the Bible, rank these six interpretations according to how successful each interpretation is perceiving that message - atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism. Don't lump any together like you did in your response to Dot. Also, I don't care whether you rank them from top to bottom, or from bottom up, just as long as you let us know your preference.
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Post by ken on Mar 13, 2014 5:11:37 GMT -6
Ken, Let me worry about what I'm driving at and trying to accomplish, your job is to answer the questions. I'll give you a heads up though, because I'm not afraid of being honest. I want you to rank outcomes so that we have a mutual understanding of how honest people can arrive at different Bible interpretations after years of serious Bible study. If you manage to insult someone, that would be a bonus. You believe god is sending a message through the Bible, rank these six interpretations according to how successful each interpretation is perceiving that message - atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism. Don't lump any together like you did in your response to Dot. Also, I don't care whether you rank them from top to bottom, or from bottom up, just as long as you let us know your preference. Then be patient with me as I try to decode your request. It soundless like you are saying that each religious sect is an interpretation of who God is... am I correct? Not that they are interpreting the Bible but rather they are trying to interpret who God is, correct? |
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Post by stevec on Mar 13, 2014 5:29:34 GMT -6
No Ken, I know of people who have read and studied the Bible intensively and have either converted to other religions or remained true to their parental faith. I'd like you to judge the bible's success rate in each case.
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Mar 13, 2014 11:25:09 GMT -6
Today while reading a book on origins, I got to thinking about the apparent organizing tendencies of the universe. Specifically, I was wondering whether some "god language" might be useful for some people in some contexts to speak about the undeniable evidence that simplicity begets complexity in the absence of any outside intervention.
Circling back to Dot's point, this is definitely not what happens when I read scripture. Faced with the biblical explanation of things, my unequivocal reaction is, "nope--not plausible." And to be certain, I have read it with an open mind. The Bible doesn't inspire the sort of salvific reaction that it ought to if it were a message from god. It just divides into haves and have nots--a quintessentially human tendency.
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Post by showmedot on Mar 13, 2014 11:40:52 GMT -6
Besides, Ken's once again being disingenuous (and somewhat contradicting remaining in his line of work!) if he truly means he's never claimed that the Bible is so persuasive that reading it thoughtfully and sincerely will lead someone to become a Christian.
Any reasonable person agrees that never reading the Bible for oneself and only judging it by what you read of others quoting it is hardly honest if you claim you know what it says. Steve has been quite open about having reached his conclusions about it by reading what he's seen quoted and analyzed, nothing more. Had he claimed to know the Bible and rejected it only for us to learn later that he's never cracked one for 40-odd years, we would indeed have a basis for disregarding his opinion of it.
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Post by stevec on Mar 13, 2014 14:05:03 GMT -6
Ken,
Don't worry about it. Let me work on the question from another angle, perhaps start another thread.
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Post by showmedot on Mar 13, 2014 14:27:26 GMT -6
Good idea, Steve. We've gone waaaay off track with this thread for sure.
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Post by ken on Mar 13, 2014 18:48:01 GMT -6
Besides, Ken's once again being disingenuous (and somewhat contradicting remaining in his line of work!) if he truly means he's never claimed that the Bible is so persuasive that reading it thoughtfully and sincerely will lead someone to become a Christian. With all due respect, if you want to change what this exchange said IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT WAS BEING SAID... then, my dear Dot, be disingenuous. Now... if you want to ask a different question like "Can reading the Bible lead someone to Christ?" then ask the question--otherwise, please don't twist what is being said. It doesn't become you. |
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Post by showmedot on Mar 13, 2014 19:31:02 GMT -6
Honestly, Ken, it begins to appear that you simply aren't understanding much of what's being said.
Yes, you HAVE said numerous times that reading the Bible with the right attitude will show the reader that it is indeed a message from God about how to become a better person and live a good life.
I have no idea whatsoever what you think is being twisted. I'm not trying to twist a blazin' thing, only attempting to clarify points I made and trying to clear the confusion.
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Post by ken on Mar 13, 2014 19:51:32 GMT -6
Honestly, Ken, it begins to appear that you simply aren't understanding much of what's being said. Yes, you HAVE said numerous times that reading the Bible with the right attitude will show the reader that it is indeed a message from God about how to become a better person and live a good life. I have no idea whatsoever what you think is being twisted. I'm not trying to twist a blazin' thing, only attempting to clarify points I made and trying to clear the confusion. Then let me explain... this whole thing with Steve was just about the fact that he hasn't read for himself the Bible. That was the context, period... nothing more and nothing less. Whether it convinces him or not was not the subject matter. Just that he would look for himself instead of basing his viewpoint on what he reads on blogs. If someone wants to ask me if reading can convince people... the obvious answer is "yes" as it has convinced a boatload. As well as the answer of "no", as some people have read it and not changed their viewpoint. Between the two, my perception is that more people are convinced than those who aren't. |
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