|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 4, 2014 21:31:21 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 5, 2014 12:31:32 GMT -6
Having just finished watching the video, I'll start:
For those who may be joining us, I am not religious. I believe that the consensus scientific view, i.e. the evolution of complexity through naturally observable process is the best explanation we have for the world as we see it.
Critiquing, therefore, Mr. Nye:
He never articulated the fundamental difference between science and creationism, i.e. that science starts with information, then builds towards a conclusion, whereas creationism begins with a conclusion then seeks corroborating evidence. Mr. Ham reiterated over and over that the Bible is his starting point for scientific understanding and hailed it as a book like no other, the only one to give a comprehensive description of how life started and developed. Mr. Nye left this totally unchallenged. Nearly all mythical systems do this, and Ken Ham disbelieves every one of the rest of them. Nye didn't make any errors of fact, but he failed to grasp or address the central disagreement. Instead of seizing on Ham's numerous admissions that there is nothing whatsoever that could change his belief in a very young earth, Nye let it come down to an exchange of jargon.
Ham's bar for success was to present creationism as a reasonable alternative to the consensus scientific view. While he didn't do so on fact, he certainly succeeded on style. Given that the vast majority of his audience was scientifically illiterate and disinclined to fact check the debate, I think he succeeded. Victory Ham.
Ham's biggest mistake, incidentally, was to demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that the purpose of creationism is to provide a foothold for mass evangelism. He gave "altar calls" at every available opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 5, 2014 12:33:07 GMT -6
In retrospect, it was too much for me to ask everyone to sit through 2.5 hours of this before commenting. The floor is open for all with an opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 5, 2014 13:51:02 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by stevec on Feb 6, 2014 7:28:06 GMT -6
I considered starting a thread about this debate a few weeks ago and even then comments in the media stated that Ham needed the debate to help finance his moronic Ark project.
All of us could have predicted this outcome. Evangelicals leaders have a knack for sucking resources from stupid believers, let them do it, but there's no reason the rest of us should help. I thought this debate was a bad idea from the start, especially after the reports that Ham needed money for his Ark project. Attendance is way down for his Creation Museum and appears to be operating in the red. If you want a business species to become extinct, cut off its financing.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 21, 2014 18:08:54 GMT -6
I considered starting a thread about this debate a few weeks ago and even then comments in the media stated that Ham needed the debate to help finance his moronic Ark project. All of us could have predicted this outcome. Evangelicals leaders have a knack for sucking resources from stupid believers, let them do it, but there's no reason the rest of us should help. I thought this debate was a bad idea from the start, especially after the reports that Ham needed money for his Ark project. Attendance is way down for his Creation Museum and appears to be operating in the red. If you want a business species to become extinct, cut off its financing. Did you watch it? It's two hours of supreme torture, but nothing but the best for my buds. If so, what did you think?
|
|
|
Post by stevec on Feb 23, 2014 6:39:57 GMT -6
No, I didn't.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Mar 1, 2014 12:12:43 GMT -6
Ham now has the baconIt seems the debate was the kickstart that Ham needed. Personally, I think the more the story of Noah's ark is told and scrutinized, the better. I found it incredibly disturbing when I was a Christian.
|
|
|
Post by stevec on Mar 1, 2014 14:55:50 GMT -6
How are municipal bonds not guaranteed by the city?? F** k it, I don't care anymore.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Mar 1, 2014 15:36:55 GMT -6
How are municipal bonds not guaranteed by the city?? F** k it, I don't care anymore. Well, you still care enough to use the asterisks, which is more than I can say for myself.
|
|
|
Post by stevec on Mar 1, 2014 16:13:41 GMT -6
There's a reason why everyone calls me Mr. Sensitivity.
Who's guaranteeing these bonds? Perhaps the state, I don't know, but it seems ludicrous that any government agency would get involved in a religiously themed venture like this. I suppose it was catagorized as an amusement park to get around the church/state issue. Stupid fucking Kentuckyians, I hope they lose the whole wad. Oops
|
|
|
Post by showmedot on Mar 4, 2014 7:54:17 GMT -6
Yeah, I think I read somewhere that it is categorized as an amusement park so as to be eligible for funding it otherwise wouldn't qualify for.
The place was such a big draw for some time after it opened that I bet tourist bucks were all that Kentucky gave a care about.
|
|
|
Post by Flitzerbiest on Mar 4, 2014 8:04:02 GMT -6
Let them build their "amusement park" themed on God wiping out the entire planet in a jealous rage. I don't see how this hurts the cause of progress.
|
|
|
Post by stevec on Mar 4, 2014 8:38:10 GMT -6
I understand, from reviews of the movie, that Noah was so depressed from what he had witnessed, that he got shit faced aftet the Ark landed.
|
|
|
Post by showmedot on Mar 4, 2014 16:36:45 GMT -6
I understand, from reviews of the movie, that Noah was so depressed from what he had witnessed, that he got shit faced aftet the Ark landed. The movie took some definite dramatic liberties if it puts ol' Noah's getting blasted at right after the Ark landed. According to Genesis, Noah planted a vineyard, made wine from its output and got bombed on it which had to have happened a good long while after the humongous flood unless God did some major mojo on that vineyard's growth. The big deal about that weird story is actually the fact that Noah's youngest son saw his dad naked and passed out (the latter apparently being incidental compared to seeing Pops naked). He goes and tells his two brothers who back into the tent where Noah is sprawled out and toss a blanket or something over the family jewels without looking while doing so. Noah then puts a curse on the youngest son for having seen him naked as if accidentally happening onto that shocking view was the son's fault simply for going looking for his father! Ya got me why seeing your same sex parent in the raw was so scandalous. Probably regarded as some silly violation of the commandment about honoring parents.
|
|