The Pope Said What????

[stevec]

Pope Francis Tells Couples Not to Substitute Dogs and Cats for Children

www.christianheadlines.com/blog/pope-francis-tells-couples-not-to-substitute-dogs-and-cats-for-children.html

Pope Francis on Monday (June 2) warned married couples against substituting cats and dogs for children — a move that he said leads to the “bitterness of loneliness” in old age.
 
The pope made his comments as he celebrated daily Mass with 15 married couples in the chapel at the Santa Marta residence where he lives inside the Vatican.

He reminded the couples, whose marriages ranged from 25 to 60 years, of the need for faithfulness, perseverance and fertility in maintaining a Christian marriage.

But he went a step further and strongly criticized those couples who choose not to have children, saying they had been influenced by a culture of “well-being” that says life is better without kids.

“You can go explore the world, go on holiday, you can have a villa in the countryside, you can be carefree,” the pope said.

“It might be better — more comfortable — to have a dog, two cats, and the love goes to the two cats and the dog. Is this true or not? Have you seen it?

“Then, in the end this marriage comes to old age in solitude, with the bitterness of loneliness.“

The 77-year-old pontiff made his comments after recent figures confirmed a drop in birth rates in the U.S., Italy and elsewhere.

Figures released by Italy’s official statistics agency Istat last week showed the country’s birth rate hit a record low in 2013, with the birth of only 515,000 babies — a drop of 64,000 over the past five years — and a worrying trend as the population ages.

Last year, Time magazine provoked a national debate with a controversial issue entitled “The Childfree Life,” which also showed a dramatic fall in the U.S. birth rate and the role of personal choice.

“Married life must be persevering, because otherwise love cannot go forward. Perseverance in love, in good times and in difficult times, when there are problems: problems with the children, economic problems,” the pope said.

[stevec]

It's difficult to take anyone seriously on such topics when they are married to an all male club, emotionally attached to an imaginary savior, and are supposed to remain celibate.

[showmedot]

Yeah, well, it's tough to pay those multimillions in settlements when people aren't producing lots of little Catholics. Not as many for the pedophiles to choose from either.

It's not as if he said anything unexpected.

[stevec]

I guess Justin Bieber wasn't offering spiritual advice today, do the Pope stepped up to the plate.

[Flitzerbiest]

Jun 4, 2014 12:56:23 GMT -6 showmedot said:

Yeah, well, it's tough to pay those multimillions in settlements when people aren't producing lots of little Catholics. Not as many for the pedophiles to choose from either.

It's not as if he said anything unexpected.

Yep.

Population control be damned. If we can't persuade the religion to buy our dogma, we'll simply breed out apostasy. It certainly seems to be working for Islam.

[showmedot]

Honestly, I bet Frank's motive was partially the result of so many Catholics known to be using birth control or getting tubes tied or vasectomies after a couple kids.

The religious instruction sessions you have to sit through before getting married in a Catholic church are heavyduty on being fruitful and multiplying. You get harangued about "submitting to God's Will" which basically means you'd damn well better have kids. If the priest conducting those suspects you plan to remain childless, he can and frequently will refuse to officiate at your wedding.

Population control is actually regarded as sinful! It's seen as interfering with God's plan and indicates a lack of trust that God will provide sufficiently for people's needs.

You'd think the fact that so many Third World countries are largely Catholic would have given the higherups a clue that God isn't doing much providing for all those fruitful multipliers. But, no.

[stevec]

This is only a spiritual issue because declining birth rates give the impression that the other guys' god is winning. Pride, power, wealth, these are the things driving religious expression.

[showmedot]

Jun 5, 2014 9:21:10 GMT -6 stevec said:

This is only a spiritual issue because declining birth rates give the impression that the other guys' god is winning. Pride, power, wealth, these are the things driving religious expression.

Okay, perhaps so if you regard Catholics deciding family planning issues for themselves as "the other guys' god winning."

It's highly likely, IMO, that this is Pope F's traditionalist streak speaking. As in, "Wassamatta with you laypeople that you think you can ignore God's plan for you? Married people have kids, dammit! Get with the program, you filthy sinners!"

The whole pro-life thing is such a big deal that I think he was simply scolding those who think having kids is their personal choice.

[stevec]

Dot,

Why is birth control a sin? Why is it a spiritual concern for the Pope and his minions?

[showmedot]

Jun 5, 2014 11:17:06 GMT -6 stevec said:

Dot,

Why is birth control a sin? Why is it a spiritual concern for the Pope and his minions?

Because using artificial birth control is regarded as hubris basically. If God intends a couple to have a dozen kids by making them extremely fertile, it's thwarting God's intent for the couple for them to use ABC or sterilization to remain childless.

There's also the factor that IUD's and some birth control pills work by preventing implantation of the fertilized egg. Since Catholicism teaches that human life begins at conception, you're killing your child by preventing its further growth and development if you use such methods.

Natural means such as abstinence when the woman is likely to be ovulating are okay up to a point. You aren't actively doing anything that would harm an existing child. However, the RCC doesn't encourage more than temporary use of that even. Seeking advice on acceptable methods is likely to get you lectured on submitting to God's will and "be fruitful and multiply." God said in the Bible that people are to have lots of kids, and that's clearly what God wants done.

Now, you may be thinking, "Okay, so use a diaphragm or condom. No life gets made with barrier methods." But those are forbidden, because you're preventing the "natural fulfillment of physical union between husband and wife." Sex is for procreation, and you'd better not prevent that from occurring if you're going to have sex. But yet, it can be not merely okay but admirable for a couple to abstain as long as they're doing that as a sacrifice or for health reasons. Then, no sex is holy. Go figger.

Yes, it's basically a catch-22. You're screwed if you do and screwed if you don't.

[stevec]

Somebody needs to do a scientific study on the percentages of women dying during childbirth vs. men dying during childbirth. If it's determined that there is a substantial statistical difference, the Catholic Church needs to either fix the death problem or their change their policies.

I say let the cats and dogs fulfill god's will.

[showmedot]

Ah, but you see if a woman dies in childbirth, that was God's plan for her. And if she refuses an abortion deemed medically advisable and then dies, she's little short of a saint.

Here's what I once got in trouble for questioning: Why is it okay to spay and neuter your pets but not yourselves? Isn't it God's will for animals to multiply without human interference?

I got in trouble quite a bit for "thinking too much."

[Flitzerbiest]

Jun 5, 2014 13:40:31 GMT -6 showmedot said:

Jun 5, 2014 11:17:06 GMT -6 stevec said:

Dot,

Why is birth control a sin? Why is it a spiritual concern for the Pope and his minions?

Because using artificial birth control is regarded as hubris basically. If God intends a couple to have a dozen kids by making them extremely fertile, it's thwarting God's intent for the couple for them to use ABC or sterilization to remain childless.

There's also the factor that IUD's and some birth control pills work by preventing implantation of the fertilized egg. Since Catholicism teaches that human life begins at conception, you're killing your child by preventing its further growth and development if you use such methods.

Natural means such as abstinence when the woman is likely to be ovulating are okay up to a point. You aren't actively doing anything that would harm an existing child. However, the RCC doesn't encourage more than temporary use of that even. Seeking advice on acceptable methods is likely to get you lectured on submitting to God's will and "be fruitful and multiply." God said in the Bible that people are to have lots of kids, and that's clearly what God wants done.

Now, you may be thinking, "Okay, so use a diaphragm or condom. No life gets made with barrier methods." But those are forbidden, because you're preventing the "natural fulfillment of physical union between husband and wife." Sex is for procreation, and you'd better not prevent that from occurring if you're going to have sex. But yet, it can be not merely okay but admirable for a couple to abstain as long as they're doing that as a sacrifice or for health reasons. Then, no sex is holy. Go figger.

Yes, it's basically a catch-22. You're screwed if you do and screwed if you don't.

Do you remember how incoherent CCC sounded trying to defend this stuff? Marriage is for procreative purposes. Fertility is God's plan and for his glory. Sterility--not his problem...its our sinfulness that brought it on.

Whatever. If the RCC has any true inheritance from early Judaism, it is that it is obsessed with controlling sexuality, particularly female sexuality.