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Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 20, 2014 16:14:21 GMT -6
Woodrow, Why would Allah punish someone for worshiping another god? FB Will vary depending upon what is being worshiped. But essentially it is not a punishment but rather getting what can be provided. Suppose I have 2 friends, "Ned the Wino" a panhandler who lives under a bridge and frequents interstate access ramps. my other friend is Bill Gates. I need $5,000 by Tues to keep the Bank from foreclosing on my house and Kicking me out. I ignore Bill but keep asking Ned to help me. Ned agrees to help me. Tues comes and Ned presents me with the 39 cents and 2 bottle caps he collected. I am now living with Ned under a bridge as an apprentice panhandler. It is snowing, the temperature is below zero. Is Bill punishing me for not asking him for the $5000? Why isn't betting on the wrong horse here punishment enough? Why add hell to the mix? You aren't being forthcoming about the "jealous god" aspect of all the theisms, including yours. |
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Post by woodrowli on Feb 20, 2014 17:31:51 GMT -6
Will vary depending upon what is being worshiped. But essentially it is not a punishment but rather getting what can be provided. Suppose I have 2 friends, "Ned the Wino" a panhandler who lives under a bridge and frequents interstate access ramps. my other friend is Bill Gates. I need $5,000 by Tues to keep the Bank from foreclosing on my house and Kicking me out. I ignore Bill but keep asking Ned to help me. Ned agrees to help me. Tues comes and Ned presents me with the 39 cents and 2 bottle caps he collected. I am now living with Ned under a bridge as an apprentice panhandler. It is snowing, the temperature is below zero. Is Bill punishing me for not asking him for the $5000? So Allah can provide, but other gods cannot? Please explain, then, the constant warfare, civil rights records and economic failure of Muslim-majority nations. The reason the other gods can't produce is because they don't exist. Therer is just one God but He has many names. I Call him Allaah, G-D, Wanka Tonka (Lakota), Elohim, and many other names, some people call Him , God, Jehovah, Hosanna, etc but it is all the same God(swt) There are 50 Muslim-Majority nations. 40 of them being among the smallest Nations on earth. There is considerable diversity. Like Muslims each Nation is quite Individualistic. A bit of trivia there are 53 Catholic majority nations, which in many ways has the same issues as the Islamic Nations. Just putting that up for trivia, The post will be kept strictly about the Islamic nations. To begin with while there are 50 Muslim nations, 75% of the worlds Muslims live in just 5 Nations and in 2 of them are Minorities. Those 5 Nations are Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India and China. To get an understanding of how most Muslims live those are the Nations to study. For the rest of the Muslim world 3 are among the 10 Wealthiest Nations. SOURCE And one is among the 10 poorest nations. SOURCESix of the 10 most dangerous nations are Muslim Majority. SOURCETwo of the 10 Safest Nations are Muslims Majority SOURCETwo of the 10 most popular touist destinations are Muslim Majority SOURCE0 Three of the 50 most developed nations are Muslim Majority SOURCEOver all Muslim/Majority nations differ very from the rest of the world nations |
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Post by woodrowli on Feb 20, 2014 17:40:15 GMT -6
Will vary depending upon what is being worshiped. But essentially it is not a punishment but rather getting what can be provided. Suppose I have 2 friends, "Ned the Wino" a panhandler who lives under a bridge and frequents interstate access ramps. my other friend is Bill Gates. I need $5,000 by Tues to keep the Bank from foreclosing on my house and Kicking me out. I ignore Bill but keep asking Ned to help me. Ned agrees to help me. Tues comes and Ned presents me with the 39 cents and 2 bottle caps he collected. I am now living with Ned under a bridge as an apprentice panhandler. It is snowing, the temperature is below zero. Is Bill punishing me for not asking him for the $5000? Why isn't betting on the wrong horse here punishment enough? Why add hell to the mix? You aren't being forthcoming about the "jealous god" aspect of all the theisms, including yours. I don't see the "Jealous god" aspect. Probably just my opinion, but I see more as a metaphor equating to seperating ones self from him. Also if a person has not had any exposure to learning about God(swt) that will not be held against him. Whatever he worships will be seen as a desire and intent to worship the one God(swt). You will find us Muslim are split on that. While I practice as a Sunni of the Hanafi Madhab I do have considerable Sufi tendencies. |
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Post by showmedot on Feb 20, 2014 20:25:06 GMT -6
I'll play Catholic here for y'all. I researched the RCC's position on what Pope Frank supposedly said, according to the almost universal media misinterpretation--that atheists could go to heaven if they were good people.
The official position is that no, any non-believer who has ever heard of God, has the mental capability to understand belief in God and still refuses to believe most likely will not go to heaven.
Because these aliens presumably have no understanding of God, they would go to heaven. They, like the mentally impaired, immature children who do not yet understand right and wrong, and anyone who has had no opportunity to hear about and come to understand belief in God--all of these, the RCC says, will go to heaven as long as they do good as best they know how.
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Post by stevec on Feb 20, 2014 21:21:03 GMT -6
All I know is that if we run into evangelical aliens with more powerful weapons, I'm converting.
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Post by showmedot on Feb 20, 2014 21:58:44 GMT -6
All I know is that if we run into evangelical aliens with more powerful weapons, I'm converting. They're heeeerre! Prepare for the probe. |
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Post by stevec on Feb 20, 2014 22:12:49 GMT -6
All I know is that if we run into evangelical aliens with more powerful weapons, I'm converting. They're heeeerre! Prepare for the probe. Heck, I pay extra for that now! |
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Post by Flitzerbiest on Feb 21, 2014 18:06:11 GMT -6
standing of God, they would go to heaven. Hell, the aliens and God probably play golf on Wednesdays. |
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Post by woodrowli on Mar 15, 2014 13:56:43 GMT -6
Will vary depending upon what is being worshiped. But essentially it is not a punishment but rather getting what can be provided. Suppose I have 2 friends, "Ned the Wino" a panhandler who lives under a bridge and frequents interstate access ramps. my other friend is Bill Gates. I need $5,000 by Tues to keep the Bank from foreclosing on my house and Kicking me out. I ignore Bill but keep asking Ned to help me. Ned agrees to help me. Tues comes and Ned presents me with the 39 cents and 2 bottle caps he collected. I am now living with Ned under a bridge as an apprentice panhandler. It is snowing, the temperature is below zero. Is Bill punishing me for not asking him for the $5000? So Allah can provide, but other gods cannot? Please explain, then, the constant warfare, civil rights records and economic failure of Muslim-majority nations. Just noticed I had not answered this. Unlike Christians we do not see Allaah(swt) interfering much in the physical world. In fact we don't even think he enters it. We are pretty much on our own here. We were given life as a training and testing time. We are not much for asking Allaah(swt) to save us from our troubles, our prayers are usually asking to be granted the strength and wisdom to survive our problems if we can't over come them. We do believe Allaah(swt) will provide us the means to accomplish our needs, but it is up to us to do the work. Our goal is to worship Allaah(swt) not to train him as a pet genie that will grant us all our wishes. But getting back to the Question there are 49 Muslim Majority nations. 2 are among the 10 richest nations on earth, one is among the 10 poorest. 2 are considered to be among the 10 most developed Nations Over all we seem to run the same range as the 162 non-Muslim Nations. But we do have the 6 Nations that make the most world headlines. Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia. (The majority of us consider Iran to me Shi'ite and not Muslim) Baptists have more in common with Sunni Muslims than Shi'ite have. Shi'ite consider them selves to be Muslim, most Sunni do not consider them to be. Unlike Muslims the Shi'ite do have a central leadership and ordained clergy. The Ayatollahs have even more control over Shi'ites than the Pope has over Catholics. The Shi'ite also do not follow any of the 4 Madhabs of Sharia (OOOPs neither do Saudi or Pakistan) |
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Post by stevec on Mar 16, 2014 6:56:13 GMT -6
If Muslims consider all other religions as Muslim, whether the admit to it or not, why is there an issue with Shi'ites as Muslim?
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Post by woodrowli on Mar 16, 2014 7:12:39 GMT -6
If Muslims consider all other religions as Muslim, whether the admit to it or not, why is there an issue with Shi'ites as Muslim? We consider all who do their best to Submit to God as being Muslim. Not necessarily their religion as being Islam. There probably are Shi'a that are Muslim, but their Religion Shi'ism is not considered Islam by most Muslims for several reasons. 1. They changed the Shahadah 2. They have an ordained clergy and a central religious leader 3. They place the Ayatollahs on a level equal to Prophets |
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